Super DISC shooting the Lehigh .458x260CF Sabotless Bullet

Got out today and once a week or so ago to do more testing of this new bullet from Lehigh. As stated the bullet is labeled .458 as it is truly built for 45-70 barrels that have been converted to a muzzleloading barrel.

At .458 it is somewhat difficult to get through the crown of the regular 45 cal. muzzleloader, but once through the crown it loads very well. I have chosen to size the barbs on the bullets to .454 allowing it to pass through the crown of regular ML bore easier.

I have really good luck shooting this bullet and really good groups! But, all my testing has been done with BH-209 powder. The test today was to see if I could get similar results using T7 powder, which I normally use. It is just so much less expensive to shoot. Plus in Idaho where I am required to use cap ignition during ML season, I was really interested if T7 would get the job done.

Today proved T7 works just fine! but it needs to be noted the bullet needs to be loaded in a dry barrel!
This picture shows the result of today's run to the Rock Pit.



Back in March I did another test shoot trying to compute the BC of the bullet and completing a Ballistic Chart for the bullet. I will tell you the group shot could have been tighter and would have been tighter if I was not so concerned about shooting through two chronographs especially the one at 100 yards. It would be a real pain if I were to shoot one of the chronographs.

I also developed a 'Bump Stick' to help me get the bullet through the crown and started down the bore.



The rains came again this afternoon and cut the shoot short, but I got what I needed done - would have just liked to have shot a little more.

Nice and I like your bumpstick. On it you say to turn it over to the flat side, what's the other side look like? Did you drill it about bullet size alittle bit?

twild said:

Nice and I like your bumpstick. On it you say to turn it over to the flat side, what's the other side look like? Did you drill it about bullet size alittle bit?

Click to expand...

Yes, exactly... the bottom end has a hole drilled that just fits over the nose of the bullet.





The drilled hole fits over the nose of the bullet but the tip of the does not touch the bottom of the drilled hole. That way all the pressure is applied to the outside of the bullet + it helps to align it in the crown.

I am very intrigued by these bullets . I have done a little reading on this design. I have a couple of questions. Do you think the accuracy comes from the driving bands riding the rifling or is the skirt flairing into the rifling ? Also over time will this be hard on ones crown ?

Dougs136Schwartz said:

I am very intrigued by these bullets . I have done a little reading on this design. I have a couple of questions. Do you think the accuracy comes from the driving bands riding the rifling or is the skirt flairing into the rifling ? Also over time will this be hard on ones crown ?

Click to expand...

Doug, I have been working on this project for many years using many different bullets. I have knurled them with files - I used a cutting tool to cut raised barbs (driving bands) and Lehigh has test produced many different bullets in both 45 and 50 cal.

50 cal sabotless proved to be the more difficult because of the tremendous different size of 50 cal. bores on the market. you can even get a wide variance in the same manufactures barrels. I have always speculated the 45 cal would be easier to create a 'universal' bullet because the different 45 bores do not seem to have the wide spread of bore sizes as do the 50's.

Lately, I believe that the body OD is the key! I the body of the 45 bullet is 0.449 it will go down the bore of 90% of the 45 rifle barrels out there. Then then the driving bands should be large enough in diameter to grab the lands yet be flexible enough to be able to shape to the different groove depths for centering and guidance and grip on the way back up the bore. The powder cup must have enough depth and allow the obturation of the powder cup to seal gas behind the bullet + provide a positive grip on the bore to insure rotation. So in my mind it is a combination of both cup and barbs.

In my knurling attempts I have been really amazed how little 'grip is actually needed to achieve rotation, with the first few inches being KEY!

Crown damage.... that is a concern of mine also... but from the guys that know a hole lot more about metals than I... you should not wear damage the crown loading the bullets. The device you might use loading them could be a potential cause of damage. That is why I went to the homemade wood 'bump stick'. But then again even a good short starter used by a person that knows how to use it correctly will do the job.

This is another little tool that works well especially when the tip of the bullet is flush with the barrel. The 40 cal, brass tip is so small hitting the crown with this would be difficult.



The bullet on the left is a concept bullet from a few years back. It is a GREAT deer hunting bullet, 45x220CF. The OD is 0.452 and the barbs are 0.455. The OD of this bullet was it's down side - not a lot of the new 45 ML's wll this OD work in.



Now to cover my rear I am gong to pass your and this response onto Lehigh and see what they say...

Lol I bet you correct . A combination of both