250gr TMZ/42gr N-110...

[big6x6]

I went to the range this past Sunday morning. Sorry it took me so long to post! I basically wanted to put to rest the idea of using 42gr N-110 along with a 250gr Barnes TMZ. So I weighed out a bunch of charges and loaded the stainless/laminate 10ML-II, blue/symthetic 10ML-II, and the ULA in the truck and away I went...

Well the 42gr N-110/250gr TMZ experiment ended abruptly. I only had to shoot two shots with each gun. Three shots and the groups surely wouldn't have gotten any better! ULA-2.3 inches, laminate-2.6, and synthetic-2.6. Really funny that the group size was so close for all three rifles! I may go up a grain and down a grain next time(41gr and 43gr) to put a nail in the coffin of N-110/250gr TMZ but I really don't know if that is necessary. It would look like 42gr would at LEAST group DECENT in ONE of the three guns, doesn't it? I'm thinking it's just not a good combination. So at any rate...N-110 and the 250gr TMZ is on the back burner for now.. BTW...these 2-shot groups were the first ones out of each gun so barrel heating was a non-issue

Now what DID show some promise with the 250gr TMZ was N-120. I had 61gr of N-120 to try and I'm glad I did. Considering the heat and all three guns have not been cleaned in any way since March( ) I shot some pretty good groups. In fact all THREE guns shot this combo really good, good enough to warrant a second try and with varying powder charges.

That's about 80fps faster than I get using N-110/250gr bullet in the ULA. Recoil IS a little sharper for sure.

Again about a 100fps velocity increase over N-110.

About 130fps over a N-110 load here.

I like this load in all three rifles. Should be really flat shooting. I'm going to give it another try...

I ALSO tried 57gr N-120 with the 290gr TMZ. I would have tried it in all three but ran out of charges.. This one looks to have to promise as well. My blue/synthetic 10ML-II in fact was the best shooting gun of all three Sunday shooting smaller groups than the other two. If there's a REAL difference in accuracy between the laminate and the synthetic, I have not seen it. A little flimsy YES but the sucker SHOOTS!

 

[Wolf_River_Mike]

Good report Chuck. Nice groups, interesting the N120 shot better with the 250 grn bullets that the N110.

 

[dwhunter]

Chuck your results with N110 is exactly like mine was. I didn't try the N120 with the 250TMZ's so I'll be sure to try that next time out. :wink:

 

[Nic_58]

Chuck,
I tried the VERY same load out back on 6-5-06 in my laminated Savage and I came away scratching my head also. I though there's no way that my Savage won't shoot these incredibly tough yellow saboted copper wonders all into one little hole at 100 yds. but I got a reality check when I tried them. Best I could tell, with the 42 gr. N110 load, the 250 TMZ groups around 2"+ on average in my gun also. Glad to know it wasn't just me! :lol: At the end of the day, I pulled out 3-250 gr. SST's in Harvester short sabots and shot them with the 42 gr. N110.....result......1" group at 100 yards. That's why I was pretty sure it wasn't just me having a bad day! I've put the 250 TMZ's on the back burner also until someone comes up with the "magic" formula, if there is such a thing!

 

[IndianaHunter]

Great post Chuck... I like both of those loads..N-120 shoots well in both my SMI and HB...

 

[Hunt 4 Bucks]

Thanks for the nice report Chuck.

I have not shot any VV N120 yet, but at 2400+ fps how is the recoil? I calculated about 7 to 8 ft/lbs of recoil energy difference, which would be about a 35 to 40% increase over your N110 load.

 

[Doohan]

Chuck,

Great report. One bullet in 3 different guns, great report!!! I hit the range on Saturday and forgot all my TMZ's at home

Thanks for giving me a place to start!!!!

8)

 

[Grouse]

I hit the range on Saturday and forgot all my TMZ's at home

That's no surprise

 

[Grouse]

Good report Chuck. Just keep working on finding me a load for my NULA. :shock: 8)

 

[Doohan]

I hit the range on Saturday and forgot all my TMZ's at home

That's no surprise

I need a Uhaul for all this stuff!

 

[Grouse]

I need a Uhaul for all this stuff!

You should of kept the trailer you rented.

 

[big6x6]

Chuck your results with N110 is exactly like mine was.

Chuck,
I tried the VERY same load out back on 6-5-06 in my laminated Savage and I came away scratching my head also. I though there's no way that my Savage won't shoot these incredibly tough yellow saboted copper wonders all into one little hole at 100 yds. but I got a reality check when I tried them. Best I could tell, with the 42 gr. N110 load, the 250 TMZ groups around 2"+ on average in my gun also. Glad to know it wasn't just me!

Well it looks like a trend folks. At least three of us coming up with the same results. The first time I ever shot that bullet was in Crossville... I shot in the ULA with 42 or 44gr of SR-4759...it shot GREAT! So that's the NEXT combination I'm going to try with the 250gr TMZ.

I have not shot any VV N120 yet, but at 2400+ fps how is the recoil?

It's not so bad out of the heavier laminate 10ML-II. Pretty tough but still manageable out of the ULA.

 

[Corncob]

I just ordered TMZ 250's with the expectation of shooting with N110. At the moment tht doesn't sound like such a good idea. I'll probably give them a go at lower doses. That proved to be the ticket with the TMZ 290's and N120. I got better groups with 290's at 53 grains than I did at 56 or 58 grains and I don't have much desire to shoot 60 grains or more.

I shot 275 grain XPB's with 5744 (44) and N120 (56). I was pleased with the groups, but of the 9 bullets I dug out of the dirt, 5 had not mushroomed. Also, the extremely easy loading aspect made me a bit uneasy.

All of the TMZ 290's I found were clones of the the advertising - unless they happened to bump into another bullet buried in the backstop.

My motivation for wanting solid copper is a cow in New Mexico in early December. It will be my first elk hunt and I plan to be ready.

BR's Cob

 

[Harry1]

Great report Chuck! It has really been hot around here lately. 100 yesterday and probably same today.

 

[Mountain Man]

Nice shooting! I always like it when I get those equilateral triangles--just seems to me that the load is usually at a good level of consistency.

Chuck, how do your results with 42g N110 and 250 TMZs compare to the same load with 245 Spitfires?

Once I finish working with H322 and 300g SWs, I plan to get some of the 250 TMZs and try them with IMR 4198. I had a pretty mild load of 4198 and 245 Spitfires that was a pretty accurate load. I was hoping that I could just substitute in the 250 TMZs and be pretty close. If you got good groups with the Spitfires and and bad with TMZs using the same charge, then my plan may need a little modification. :?

 

[IAhunter]

Those that have played with the 250gr TMZs how difficult are they to stuff down your barrel? How does the effort compare to other bullet/sabot combos?
It been my experience that the harder the bullet/sabot is to seat the better it shoots.

 

[dwhunter]

Those that have played with the 250gr TMZs how difficult are they to stuff down your barrel? How does the effort compare to other bullet/sabot combos?
It been my experience that the harder the bullet/sabot is to seat the better it shoots.

Stiff loading sabots may work great in your gun but that's not necessarily the norm in all. I have one Savage that likes HPH-12's and the other likes HPH-24's. The TMZ yellow sabot for me seemed to load somewhere between the two.

 

[Nic_58]

Those that have played with the 250gr TMZs how difficult are they to stuff down your barrel?

Well, I didn't think they loaded all that bad, pretty snug but not unbearable. I think it makes a difference in how warm the the sabot is. I tried some Barnes Spitfires in the very same yellow sabot last fall when it was cool outside and I didn't think I would EVER get them seated. It was probably in the 30-40?F range outside then. Tried the very same thing a couple months ago when it was probably 70?F outside and they loaded considerably easier then! :? It was probably in the 70?F range when I shot the TMZ's also.

It been my experience that the harder the bullet/sabot is to seat the better it shoots.

That's not been my experience at all! The absolute best accuracy I've ever gotten out of my gun has been with .452" diameter Hornady bullets using Harvester sabots. They load about like an HPH24 does. No way were they the hardest I've ever loaded yet they are by far the most accurate out of MY gun!

 

[big6x6]

Chuck, how do your results with 42g N110 and 250 TMZs compare to the same load with 245 Spitfires?

I tried them once in the ULA with 38gr N-110. They practically shot into the same hole. I never went to a higher powder charge, I guess I got sidetracked by 250gr PTX/SSTs.

Those that have played with the 250gr TMZs how difficult are they to stuff down your barrel?

For me the TMZs are some of the hardest loading projectiles out there. My blued 10ML-II seems to have one of the tightest bores around and they are almost impossible. Remind me of loading a 300gr SST/HPH-12.