a few questions on a new rifle

[Czexan66]

I've been searching the web, trying to learn a little about inline muzzleloaders and I found this forum, so I thought it might be a good place to ask a few questions of you guys who are experienced. I've been shooting, reloading and hunting with centerfire for many decades and have owned a couple of traditional muzzleloaders over the years, but I just decided to purchase a TC Impact yesterday. The main reason for buying it is because I want to get in an extra few days of hunting during muzzleloader season and I needed a gun to do it with. I read several good reviews on the rifle and it was quite inexpensive, so I just ordered one. The inexpensive part of it was what really attracted me to it as I've been spending so much money reloading for my other rifles that I just can't justify getting into a high dollar muzzleloader right now.

Now that the Impact is on its way to me, I'm trying to determine what I need to get so that I can get busy shooting it when it arrives. I ordered some Barnes 250gr TEZ and a brass jag for seating them. I already picked up a couple hundred CCI 209 primers also. Now, I'm wondering what powder I should get. I keep seeing reference to Blackhorn 209 and I found it available at my local store. However, I also noticed the the BH209 comes in a 10oz can and is 40 bucks per can while the various Pyrodex powders they had were around $25 per pound. I'm not familiar with the benefits of BH209 over Pyrodex...is it worth the much steeper price? I'm guessing you might get about 45 loads of 100 grains out of a 10oz can...is that about right? I have several pounds of Goex 2F black powder that I use in my Colt Walker, but I would rather not fool with the hassle of cleaning up after black powder if there is a better alternative. I've never used Pyrodex and have only ever shot black powder, so I'm absolutely unfamiliar with black powder substitutes. I could sure use some feedback on this.

Since I haven't actually got the TC Impact in my hands yet, I haven't had a chance to see one in person. I'm assuming I'll need a capping tool of some sort to install the primers? Any suggestions on something very basic that works well?

I did not order the T/C Impact package that comes with a scope as I already have some extra scopes and rings I can use, but I'm wondering what I should do for a scope base. Again, I would like to keep the price down on this project, but without buying any junk either. Is there a decent, reasonably priced scope base for the Impact that someone could recommend? I've done some searching and I've seen bases that say they are for Encore and Omega, but I'm not seeing anything that specifically says it's designed for the Impact. Will these bases work on the Impact?

I've been browsing this forum several times since I found it this morning and have picked up on some good info here. If you guys could help me out a little with my specific questions, it would be much appreciated!

 

[GregK]

The Impact is a great gun! A pring tool can be handy in cold weather but you can prime & remove the primers with your bare fingers easily. BH209 is expensive but once you use it you won't switch. You clean it with your centerfire gun cleaners......no BP solvents or water. It's also not moisture sensitive. You've chosen a great bullet too. I set mine up for my dad with 90 grains of BH209, a black crush rib sabot, & a Barnes 250. TACK DRIVER!! I would also suggest a DNZ one piece scope mount & yes, the Encore mount is the same. As for a good scope without breaking the bank......Bushnell Trophy XLT DOA 250, Redfield Revenge, Redfield Revolution, or Vortex Crossfire.

Hope this helps. Good luck & keep us posted- Greg

 

[Czexan66]

Thanks for the reply, GregK. You answered all of my questions and then some. I've been planning to just use another scope that I have, but then you mentioned the Vortex Crossfire. I have several Vortex scopes on other rifles and I've been very pleased with them, so now you've got me thinking about purchasing a scope. Also, it's good to know that the primers can be easily installed with fingers as I don't mind doing that one bit and it's one less thing to have to keep up with.

I'm going to go ahead and purchase the BH209 as well. My local store (I live hundreds of miles from any large city) is usually pretty high on prices, so I'm wondering what the going rate is for BH209? It's 39.99 for 10oz at my store, so I'm guessing it can be had for much better prices if I buy it while I'm traveling through a city.

Our general season for whitetail in Texas ends on January 5th and then the muzzleloader only season runs from January 6-19, so this Impact will add an extra 2 weeks to my hunting season. I'm pretty fired up about that! Thanks again for your help!

 

[Widude]

You mention CCI primers, are they CCIM (magnum) primers? You need a hot primer for reliable B209 ignition.

You still have to clean within a reasonable time after shooting B209, but it will give you some time, at least a handful of days after shooting. I still clean my M-L's ASAP after shooting, while away hunting I go 3-4 days or so with B209.

B209 is usually priced from $25 on sale to about $40. The main reason I like it is added FPS with the chronograph over most substitutes, and some breathing room if you can't easily clean the day you shoot. One you get sighted in, most hunting is a several shot ordeal at the most, savings are minimal with cheaper 777 or Pyrodex. Don't even mess with Shockey's Gold & some of the lesser knowns.

You can always do some range shooting with Pyrodex. I just use reduced B209 charges, 80 grains or a bit less. Of course one needs to do a final sight in with the hunting loads and charges.

 

[Czexan66]

Thanks for the additional info, Muskrat. I'm glad you let me know that I should get magnum primers because the ones I bought are not magnum. I would like to know more about ignition problems with BH209 as I have come across several posts now that indicate that this is a recurring issue for some people. Does the use of magnum primers eliminate the problem or can it still be an issue even when using magnum primers? The place where I hunt can be kinda slow to produce legal deer to shoot, so I don't want to risk an ignition problem when my opportunity finally presents itself.

 

[oldfox]

I have only used Win 209 primers in my Impact. I have never had a misfire using BH 209. Over 100 rounds have been fired..

 

[Widude]

Other primers 'may' work just fine in some guns, check the Western Powders website too. The primers you want to avoid for sure are any 'reduced flash' specialty M-L primers. If you go through some back pages you will see oodles of info on primer particulars.

I use CCIM because I have a good supply and they have always worked under varying temps & conditions. The standard primers may work just fine in your gun. I have never had any ignition problems with B209 after shooting it since it came out.

There are a number of things that can lead to ignition problems, primer type is just one potential factor.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Go to BlackHorn's website if you haven't already. Lot's of good info there. Here is a link on breechplug cleaning that explains how to clean a plug for proper ignition of BH209.

http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/breech-plug-cleaning/

The Impact's breechplug is well designed for using BH209.

 

[GregK]

Thanks for the reply, GregK. You answered all of my questions and then some. I've been planning to just use another scope that I have, but then you mentioned the Vortex Crossfire. I have several Vortex scopes on other rifles and I've been very pleased with them, so now you've got me thinking about purchasing a scope. Also, it's good to know that the primers can be easily installed with fingers as I don't mind doing that one bit and it's one less thing to have to keep up with.

I'm going to go ahead and purchase the BH209 as well. My local store (I live hundreds of miles from any large city) is usually pretty high on prices, so I'm wondering what the going rate is for BH209? It's 39.99 for 10oz at my store, so I'm guessing it can be had for much better prices if I buy it while I'm traveling through a city.

Our general season for whitetail in Texas ends on January 5th and then the muzzleloader only season runs from January 6-19, so this Impact will add an extra 2 weeks to my hunting season. I'm pretty fired up about that! Thanks again for your help!

You are very welcome We are here to help. Most of your questions have been answered by others but I can add in this. CCI MAG is the primer that Blackhorn recommends but with my Impact W209, CCI 209 MAG, Fed 209A, & Rem STS, will all work fine. Fiocchi 616 will to if they fit in the primer pocket. I'll have to check & get back to you.

The Vortex scopes are great. I have a Viper HS on my Knight & it is a fantastic piece of glass.

If I can be of any other assistance, just yell- Greg

 

[Czexan66]

I went back to the store today to see if they had any CCI Magnum primers, but they did not. They do have Fed 209A though. I'm going to be taking a trip this weekend that will take me through a city that has an Academy, so I'll stop in there and see if they have any CCI 209M in stock. Perhaps they'll have BH209 for less than $40 a can as well. If not, I'll pick some up locally next week. I ordered the gun on Monday from Cabela's and my order confirmation says it will be delivered on Tuesday, the 17th. However, it appears that they haven't even shipped it yet as it is still showing "in process" when I check my order status. I'm eager to get my hands on it and see what it'll do, so I hope they get it on the UPS truck soon! Thanks again for all the replies. I've participated on numerous gun forums over the years and have found that some are really great, some are overcrowded with too many "know-it-alls", and some are practically dead. I've spent a couple of days browsing this one and it seems like a really good community of helpful and knowledgeable people. I don't have much to add right now since most of my experience is with centerfire shooting, but I'll continue to visit here and will look forward to discussing inline muzzleloaders as I start gaining some experience on the topic. I can get pretty carried away with hobbies that involve sending projectiles downrange, so I'm looking forward to this!

 

[GregK]

I went back to the store today to see if they had any CCI Magnum primers, but they did not. They do have Fed 209A though. I'm going to be taking a trip this weekend that will take me through a city that has an Academy, so I'll stop in there and see if they have any CCI 209M in stock. Perhaps they'll have BH209 for less than $40 a can as well. If not, I'll pick some up locally next week. I ordered the gun on Monday from Cabela's and my order confirmation says it will be delivered on Tuesday, the 17th. However, it appears that they haven't even shipped it yet as it is still showing "in process" when I check my order status. I'm eager to get my hands on it and see what it'll do, so I hope they get it on the UPS truck soon! Thanks again for all the replies. I've participated on numerous gun forums over the years and have found that some are really great, some are overcrowded with too many "know-it-alls", and some are practically dead. I've spent a couple of days browsing this one and it seems like a really good community of helpful and knowledgeable people. I don't have much to add right now since most of my experience is with centerfire shooting, but I'll continue to visit here and will look forward to discussing inline muzzleloaders as I start gaining some experience on the topic. I can get pretty carried away with hobbies that involve sending projectiles downrange, so I'm looking forward to this!

Glad you are happy here. There are some VERY knowledgeable guys on here & getting the help you need is usually just a question away. Enjoy the site, & your new experiences. Keep us posted & of course, ask any question that you may have.

One other thing I don't think has been mentioned.......Clean your gun well when you get it including & especially the bore. Use center fire rifle cleaners & NOT black powder cleaners. I would also suggest a bore cleaner like bore paste, Rem 40X or Flitz, just to polish the new barrel. For final cleaning to remove any trace of oil I use Non Chlorinated brake kleen, or Windex followed by a couple of dry patches. Your first shot from a cold clean barrel will be off from the others as a rule, so shoot one & then begin the sighting in process. BH209 likes a fouled barrel so DO NOT SWAB BETWEEN SHOTS. Now......HAVE FUN

 

[ronlaughlin]

I have only used Win 209 primers in my Impact. I have never had a misfire using BH 209. Over 100 rounds have been fired..

Myself, i don't know nothing about the Impact, but in my Omega(s), i have only used W209 primer. Thousands of times. Never had a hang fire, even at -13. To me, the folk that advocate there is a need to use magnum primer when shooting Blackhorn, are perpetuating a myth.

 

[Widude]

I think those Fed 209A primers at your local shop would be fine with B209.

There are differences with the individual M-L's & breech plugs among models. Some BPs are more 'optimized' for B209, that may include a slightly larger flash hole to allow more flame to the charge. One type of gun, with a certain BP may be more forgiving with reliable ignition using various primers. Most of potential problems can be discovered at the range. One common variable can be the temp, possibly much colder while hunting. A primer that worked well at 60 may have trouble at 10 degrees.


A friend had a serious hang-fire earlier this Fall that allowed a nice 8 ptr a pass, clean miss. This was in his always reliable Knight Extreme. It was very cold out. Earlier while loading I offered him a dry patch on a rod, and a few primers to fire to ensure any oils were cleared in the BP. He said neither were needed.

He did say his hang fire may of been from a period of time near a blind heater, then outside again. That may very well be. I just think, a little more care during the loading would of prevented the hang fire.

 

[Czexan66]

I appreciate all the good info you guys are providing. I should get a chance to do some primer shopping tomorrow, but if I don't see anything that interests me, it's good to know that the 209A primer should be good. Right now I don't know when I'll actually get the rifle. It finally shipped, but then seems to have vanished from the radar on UPS tracking. It shows that it departed Albuquerque about 24 hours ago, but there is no indication of its current location. It worries me a little because I have several UPS packages that are in limbo right now and I'm hoping I get them before I have to leave town next week. Even my second day air deliveries are way overdue because of weather delays.

I don't know what to expect to be included with the rifle. I'm assuming it will come with a breech plug wrench and I suppose the ramrod will have some sort of universal jag attached? I've ordered a loading jag for the Barnes bullets, but I haven't ordered a cleaning jag. I still need to order a bullet starter too. I still have some time since muzzleloader season doesn't start until January 6th, but I want to get in as much trigger time as possible between now and then. What else should I put on my list of necessities? With UPS deliveries delayed like they are, I'm reluctant to order anything, so I'll look around some sporting goods shops and see what I can find. If all else fails, I'll be driving past a basspro shop in a couple weeks and should also travel past a cabela's around that time too.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Yes, it will come with the breech plug wrench which actually works pretty good. I believe mine came with a short brass loading/cleaning jag but I'm not positive on that. You may already know, one end of the ram rod will not be threaded like the other end, it has a hole but no threads.

 

[Czexan66]

I went by Academy yesterday, but they had absolutely nothing that I could use, so I'll just pick up powder and primers at my local store. The rifle is supposed to be delivered tomorrow, but I expect it to be a day or two late because of UPS delays. I never did order a bullet starter and now I don't think it will arrive before I leave town if I order it now. Is it possible to seat the bullet all the way from the muzzle, using only the ramrod? The only muzzleloaders I've ever had were traditional rifles, shooting round balls, and I needed a starter to initiate seating, so I'm wondering if this Imapct might allow me to just use the ramrod. I saw a video of a guy loading an Impact and it appeared that he seated the bullet with the ramrod and never used a bullet starter. If I need to get one, I suppose I'll order it tonight with 2nd day shipping and hope it gets here in time.

I'm leaving on Friday morning to go hunting for a couple weeks, so I'm hoping I can take the Impact with me and get in a couple of shooting sessions prior to the start of muzzleloader season.

 

[WV Hunter]

You should be able to use the ramrod if you have to. Different loads require different amounts of pressure, but unless you have an extremely tight fit, you should be ok.

I would definitely order a starter, makes life easy. Even if you have an easy loading load, they come in real handy. I use the metal T handle starter made by Knight, but there are many good ones.

 

[Czexan66]

thanks, Mike. I just ordered a bullet starter and paid for next day shipping, so maybe it will get here in time. I have ordered some Barnes Spitfire T-EZ 250gr bullets also. I've searched online for places where these are available and have found a few places to order from, but I'm wondering where else I might find them. I was really disappointed with the Academy I went into last night...they had practically nothing for muzzleloaders. Do you guys normally order all of your bullets or are there places that keep them in stock in the stores? Basspro? Walmart? ...where should I look for them?

 

[ShawnT]

If one of your local stores stock TC accessories, they have a pretty good T-handle starter that has interchangeable tips to match the bullet style you want to shoot. I have one of them and even though it is plastic I have not had an issue with it breaking and it is pretty light so I drop it in my vest when out hunting. If the ramrod on the new rifle has a Flat in the jag you might need a new seating tip if you want to shoot the pointy bullets too.

 

[Czexan66]

I finally got the rifle after a very long UPS delay, but I haven't fired it yet because I left town the very next morning after it arrived. I was originally planning to use one of the scopes I already own on this Impact, but I've been looking into some other options for a dedicated scope for this gun. I want to keep it simple and inexpensive as this rifle will be mainly used for 2 or 3 days of hunting per year as well as some periodic practice shooting. I like some of the ideas already suggested in this thread, but my latest inclination is to put a fixed power scope on it. Particularly a Weaver Classic K in either 4x or 6x. More than likely, any shots I take on deer will be within 125 yards, so I'm thinking the 4x should be sufficient, but then I kinda like the idea of 6x too. Most shots I would get at the place where I'll hunt with it will probably be a minimum of 40 yards and a max of 125. Any thoughts from you guys about putting one of these Weaver Classic K scopes on this Impact?