Another Weekend with Black Horn 209 - pics added

[NimrodRx]

As some of you may remember, I began experimenting with BH209 in my 45 cal Elites quite early in the summer. Range results were impressive (at least to me), but real world results were lacking. This past weekend has removed any doubt I may have had in this combo.

Thursday morning I removed from the safe a squeaky clean (especially the breech plug) Knight Elite 45 cal topped with a Trijicon Accupoint 3-9X40. Loaded her with 120gr BH209 under a 200 gr SST in a 45/40 MMP sabot. Put a CCI 209M primer in the NFPJ conversion breech plug, stepped out the back door and shot a soda pop can off a block of wood at 70 yards. This was to serve as my fouling shot.

I then reloaded the rifle (minus the primer), placed black electrical tape over the muzzle and placed it on a bench in my barn.

Sat morning rolled around ? snowing, 22 deg, 12-15 mph wind. Primed the rifle and headed across the road. Doe at 60?ish yards broadside. Entrance and exit through the ribs just behind the shoulder, short blood trail to said deer. Reloaded rifle and taped muzzle.

Sat night ? no shots

Sun ? wife seemed to think I should spend the day with the family. Will be very glad when the majority of the family is old enough to hunt! Rifle remained loaded and unprimed in the barn.

Mon ? had the day off work. Mon morning 16 deg, 8-10 mph wind. Doe at 80?ish yards slightly quartering too me. Entrance just forward of point of shoulder and exit just behind off side shoulder. Short blood trail to said deer. Reloaded the rifle and taped muzzle.

Mon night, back to the corn field? 24 deg, 0-5 mph wind. Doe at 203 yards (verified with Leica CRF 900) quartering away just a bit. Entrance 1/3 of the way up the body, just forward of the liver. Followed a scant blood trail 50 yards to said deer. Bullet centered a rib on the way in and appears to have fragmented. Lungs were shredded and I can not find an exit. Should have exited just behind the off side shoulder. Will confirm when I skin her out this weekend. Reloaded the rifle and taped muzzle.

As an aside, this is my longest confirmed kill with a muzzleloader. It was done off a Stoney Point Bipod in the seated position with my right shoulder leaning against a tree.

At no point from Thurs to Mon (or to now for that matter) was the rifle, swabbed, cleaned in any way or removed from outside temp.

Thought I would share, as there has been some questions/concerns/reports of hang fires as of late with BH in frigid temps. Granted, this is a very small sample size. Nonetheless, it has been enough to alleviate any fears I may have had at the beginning of the season regarding this combination?s performance in cold weather.

I have fired well in excess of a total of 150 rounds (conservatively) out of three different Elite 45s. All with the NFPJ conversion. Temps ranging from 90 deg to 16 deg. Never a miss fire. Never a hang fire.

I am in NO WAY shape or form affiliated nor do I have any interest in Western powders. I am simply a guy who loves muzzle loading and has been searching for a BP sub that will come anywhere close to the performance of smokeless muzzle loading. Michigan law prohibits the use of smokeless powder during muzzle loading season, but permits it during general firearm.

BH out of a 45 cal will shoot right along with a smokeless 50. I have sub MOA 200 yard targets to prove it. In fact, in terms of trajectory, it has it beat. In terms of terminal performance, the nod goes to the smokeless 50. Not because of superior diameter, but because of superior bullets. The only rub with the 45 is bullet selection. Though the .40/200 SST is accurate as hell out of this rifle, the jacket is just not thick enough for my taste. Hawk Precision Bullets is attempting to address this with a .40 release due out Feb/Mar. I?m keeping my fingers crossed because I can not get a .40 Barnes offering to shoot.

Good Hunting!

 

[SWThomas]

Great story and great info about BH209!

 

[cayuga]

Excellent information as usual. And also a big Congratulations on the deer.. way to shoot. I have never shot a muzzleloader that far. It would be exciting to say the least.

 

[Lee 9]

Excellant report, very good shooting. Congratulations on the deer. Lee

 

[Grouse]

The NFPJ conversion in the 50cal Disc Elite is not safe at all. I had plenty of hang fires in warm weather. I had none using the red plastic jackets. I'm glad to hear you are having good results with BH209 in your Knight.

 

[NimrodRx]

Tom,

I have read of your problems with the NFPJ in the Elite 50. That was part of what had me worried about it with the 45. I have no doubt in your experience.

The only thing that I can figure is that the 45's smaller diameter is resulting in higher pressure? Maybe the smaller surface area has something to do with it? I don't know. But for whatever reason, I have had no issue while using the CCI 209M. Deer Gawd, I hope I didn't just jinx myself....

 

[NimrodRx]

BTW, I have not seen any problems with ignition using the FPJ plug either. I just prefer the NFPJ conversion for its complete elimination of blowback on my scope (I dearly love my optics) and for eliminating the need to use the jackets.

To each his own. I have a buddy that prefers the jackets and the original plug.

 

[ART338WM]

Nimrodrx, excellent report, short and to the point, but not lacking anything in terms of vital information. I have a question for you concerning BH209. Is it a must to hunt with it on a fowled bore, or does your POI from a 100% clean breach plug abd barrel differ significantly from a fowled BP and bore?

I am going to give BH209 a try in my Encore, and knowing this would prove helpfull.

Thanks again for the excellent and consice range report.
Get some horns,
Arthur.

 

[fisher2072]

Have You ever tried any of the PR Bullet offerings in the 45cal. Also, I just started using BH209. I have cleaned the bore 100% spotless between shots, I dont like leaving any fouling in a bore. I like to clean the oil out of the barrel from storage and be dead on with the first shot. Do you get better accuracy out of a fouled bore with your rifles and BH209?

 

[art sehnke]

BH 209


NimrodRX:
Great report ...amkes for good reading.

Thank you.

Art Sehnke :wink:

 

[NimrodRx]

My oldest son and me with doe #2. Isn't it funny how cold weather never seems to bother kids.....

 

[Busta]

Congratulations NimrodRx!

IIRC, I have only had one hang/delay-fire with the NFPJ conversion, and that was with a standard CCI primer. The Federal 209A is my favorite for BH209. Some of the CCI Mags flowed back to the point that they would not drop out unless I re-cocked and dry-fired the primer back in the cup.

Enjoy those little ones while you can, my oldest is 22 and my baby is 19. Don't know where all that time went, seems like they were just born yesterday. And I know what you mean about the cold not bothering the kids, but I have noticed it has started to bother me this year, must have something to do with getting older. :cry: I used to bowhunt during the late bow season in the U.P. when it was -30* (yes 30 below), call me crazy. :? That was 25 years ago when I was in my early to mid 20's, don't think I would last very long today in those temps.

 

[NimrodRx]

Nimrodrx, excellent report, short and to the point, but not lacking anything in terms of vital information. I have a question for you concerning BH209. Is it a must to hunt with it on a fowled bore, or does your POI from a 100% clean breach plug abd barrel differ significantly from a fowled BP and bore?

I am going to give BH209 a try in my Encore, and knowing this would prove helpfull.

Thanks again for the excellent and consice range report.
Get some horns,
Arthur.

Arthur,

Thanks for the kind words. Keep this up and those who don't know me might actually think I know what I'm talking about I don't.

Get some horns? I'd dearly love to. However, I can't bring myself to shoot a year and half old buck out of a group of 14 doe. Actually I passed up three different bucks that weekend. All dinkers. There is a cranker roaming the area, but I haven't seen him when I've had a firearm in my hands. Two more weekends to make him mine.... In the mean time, we've got to do what we can to get the buck:doe ratio a little closer to what it should be. I did manage a respectable 2.5 yo 8 pnt with my bow, but that's another story.

To answer your question, yes I ALWAYS hunt with a fouled bore - be it a .204, .338, or a muzzle loader. Never a problem with center fires, but this has been one of my biggest frustration with all other BP subs. I have never been comfortable with letting a rifle that has fired T7 or BM3 sit over night after it has been fired. Yes, cleaning a rifle is really no big deal. However, that's another 20 min task to do after you get home - after the wife is already sore at you for being gone all day. "Yes dear, I missed you and the kids too. I'm just going to go down in the basement for half an hour and clean my rifle." Goes over like a fart in church.

That is one of the greatest advantages of BH209, IMHO. First BP sub that I will allow to sit in my bore for an entire season - let alone over night. This from a guy who's 3 year old has spent enough nights in the basement that he repeats the montra "rust never sleeps."

I'm not going to tell you that you must fire a fouling shot. I will tell you that performance from a clean bbl will not duplicate a dirty bbl. There is a reason that bench rest shooters foul their bbls. I can not duplicate a clean bbl in the field, and neither can they after the first cpl rounds. If you think a spit patch duplicates a cleaning, .........

I can duplicate a dirty bbl. Show up for the hunt with a bore that has 1 or two rounds down the tube and know where it hits. Often I fire more than one round a day while hunting anyway. I'm certainly not going to break out the bore brush, solvents, and patches after every round..... If I'm traveling, I fire a target round or two upon arrival to confirm that my scope has maintained zero. and then go hunting. I'm not giving the rifle a thourough cleaning after those verification rounds.

Now, I am very mindful of my muzzle. If I have the slightest inkling that moisture has entered the muzzle, I will dry patch, dry patch, dry patch, dry patch.... That's part of the reason that all my rifles go into the field with black electrical tape over the muzzle. It is not affected by temp. It will stay tight to the bore through the coldest wettest weather you can imagine. I guarentee (I've played with it at the range) the psi created from that explosion going on in your rifle will blow that tape off long before the bullet ever approaches the muzzle.

It is just a good insurance policy. Monday evening at 203 was a case in point. It was cold as hell, and I didn't want to climb a tree. I hunted from the ground near one of my tree stands. Once I was on my stool, I realized I had a cpl obstacles. I pulled a folding saw from my pack and proceeded to cut some sapplings. Before I made that shot, I went to sit back down, bumped my rifle and it fell from my stool into the snow. Had the muzzle not been taped, I would have had snow in the muzzle. How do you clear snow from a muzzle loader without pulling the charge?

Foul your bore and sight in accordingly. Protect your muzzle.

AND, most importantly, don't listen to a word I say :wink:

 

[NimrodRx]

Have You ever tried any of the PR Bullet offerings in the 45cal. Also, I just started using BH209. I have cleaned the bore 100% spotless between shots, I dont like leaving any fouling in a bore. I like to clean the oil out of the barrel from storage and be dead on with the first shot. Do you get better accuracy out of a fouled bore with your rifles and BH209?

Fisher, I hope I have addressed my thoughts/concerns regarding a "clean" bore in my previous post.

Yes, I have shot a fair amount of PR bullets. I have a great deal of respect for Cecil. He has been shooting BH209 for three seasons now. Damn Canucks.... He is a very oppinionated individual, but he knows what he's talking about.

IMHO, he makes the best pure lead bullet money can buy. That said, I am interested in pushing pure lead much faster than it will tollerate. A pure lead .40 bullet leaving the bore at 2450 would likely be molten... I need a jacketed or monolithic copper bullet.

Busta, we live much too close to each other not to have met. As I've mentioned before, my 84 YO Grandmother is in Crystal just north of you. Shoot me a PM. Once season is over maybe we can fuss around at the range with the MLers (I won't fault you for bringing your .50 cal or do some bunny hunting. My brother has a few beagles - one of which is tearing it up this year.

 

[NimrodRx]

Protect your muzzle.

Just noticed that it showed up in the pic. Take a look at the muzzle. The tape shows up well. IMHO, electrical tape over the muzzle is key. I shot that doe Mon morning, reloaded, and taped the muzzle. That evening I killed a doe at 203 with that reload - after I bumped the rifle and it fell in the snow.

 

[choc-dog]

NimrodRX,

Great story...thanks for sharing your hunts with us. No shortage of deer meat in your house this year.

I noticed you are wearing the Cabelas wool to hunt in your "COLD" climate. How do you like the wool clothing??? Is is heavy??

Chocdog

 

[Grouse]

BTW, I have not seen any problems with ignition using the FPJ plug either. I just prefer the NFPJ conversion for its complete elimination of blowback on my scope (I dearly love my optics) and for eliminating the need to use the jackets.

To each his own. I have a buddy that prefers the jackets and the original plug.

The conversion is nicer if it works for you. I will try some tighter sabots this winter and see if i can improve the Disc Elite with BH209. The Triumphs have been flawless for me so far. I did do some testing i need to post yet on cold weather and BH209.

 

[smong2000]

Great stuff NimrodRX, congratulations! I love to read about it but I'm a little envious of you guys that have lots of deer around - in good way of course :wink: . Sounds like the .45 and BH209 are doing great for you. I 'need' to buy a ML barrel for my Encore and the .45 has certainly got my interest. I am going to start a thread to solicit more info about the caliber in Encores.
I've taken 5 weeks off for bow, rifle and now muzzleloader and still no venison - yet! I don't think I've seen a dozen deer in the woods all season and that's over 30 days dark-dark hunting, sure get my money's worth out of a license. Yeah, I've passed on a couple does with fawns and 2 smaller bucks and missed another decent one with my bow twice (put a broadhead in his shoulderblade but he's OK) and then again with my .270 once - I nicknamed him 'Lucky'. I did get manage to get a nice beech tree and a small maple :cry: . Not so many deer up in my part of Vermont and I'm jinxed for some reason this year. Took the morning off from hunting (40 mph wind and driving rain) to do some reading about it and get myself remotivated. I have a doe permit to fill and last night saw 3 deer, my first in 2 weeks and they were all yearling bucks hanging together and off-limits. Good thing it's the 'hunting' part that I like. Keep up your success streak and keep those great posts coming.
Steve Mongeon

 

[saxman1]

Congrats and great picture.
Good to get them into it early

 

[fisher2072]

You've convinced me, next time at the range I'll try the dirty bore with BH209. I'll be able to do a lot more shooting in the time allowed. The way I clean my barrel takes, well, a long time up between shots. I have used electrical tape for years also, but have never fired with it on. I always remove it before shooting, it's good to no that it wont affect a shot with it on! I shoot the .40 cal 260gr deadcenters and extreme elite HPs out of my .50 omega. I dont think I'm pushing them to fast for the bullet using any recomended charge of BH209. What's your preference with the lighter bullets, does your gun group better with them?