A
Anonymous
Guest
I'll address your prior comments as best as I am able.
Deer no, pronghorn yes. That's just in my case, others have their own take.
No, I don't believe you are. As you have commented elsewhere, and as mentioned on the "It Should Be Obvious" thread below-- very little revelations have been found in the last several years. It is incremental, subtle, but the gains in real world performance have been breathtakingly small.
There never was a "due date" from Western Powders, and there still is not. Not only have they been buried with the normal QC work, they are also building a completely new laboratory. Their endeavor is elective, not contractual. NATO has been a far higher priority for them, and rightly so. Their President sets the priorities, and the 10ML-II is on the table . . . but is not a priority. I'm not sure what people really expect, but there will be no shocking revelations-- and there is no rush to present much of anything.
Western Powders won't be "directly" releasing anything-- it will be presented to Savage for approval before anything else.
On the topic of "approved" loads, that is more nebulous than it might appear. There never has been a Savage recommended load with a bullet weight below 250 grains, nor has there ever been a Savage recommended load with a bullet weight above 300 grains.
There never has been a Savage recommended sabot other than the short, black MMP sabot-- part number given right in the owner's manual.
There is a world of difference between a "suggested or recommended load" and a "prohibited" load. The prohibited items with smokeless are spelled out-- mixing powders or duplex loads, sub-bases or anything between the sabot and powder, and saboted bullets only. It is all on p.13 of the owner's manual.
Yet, as clear as that is apparently did not dissuade Layne Simpson from using both sub-bases and Powerbelts; both publishing and thereby promoting their use in the latest "Shooting Times". He's not alone-- so it goes.
As it is, 4227, Reloder 7, 2400, 5744, N110, and SR4759 have all been found to be compatible propellants and suggested loads. On top of that, you have Pyrodex RS, Pyrodex Select, Triple 7, blackpowder, and pellets to boot. No muzzleloader offered today has more suggested loads.
From the inception, the loads that Savage has used have been relatively mild, erring on the side of caution and safety as Henry Ball, Bill Ball, Ron Coburn, and Savage Arms have spoken with one voice for the last six years on the matter. The only person not inclined to err on the side of caution and safety with the 10ML project has been inclined to seek employment elsewhere for that reason, among others.
Some sixteen years, if you care to go back where development started.
Right now, the 10ML-II is mature product. There is no compelling reason to offer a wider array of propellants.
Ball / spherical powders are prohibited, flake powders are prohibited, and Hodgdon "Lil" Gun is prohibited.
Bullet weights over 300 grains are NOT recommended.
Safety first, of course. The 129,000 PSI integrity testing was not conducted without purpose. Reliability of course is a consideration-- 4227 was problematic with poorly maintained guns and loose sabots, hence SR4759.
There are many, many workable powders in the 10ML-II -- far more than in a 28 ga. shotgun limited to 12,000 PSI MAP loads.
The basis for the current array of powder choices in addition to the above is availability-- three manufacturers to choose from, four counting Alliant.
Multiple choices from the same powder manufacturer would not be a high priority, as "most shooters" (at least Harvey Most, a friend of mine) neither desire nor need more than one deer load.
Deer no, pronghorn yes. That's just in my case, others have their own take.
No, I don't believe you are. As you have commented elsewhere, and as mentioned on the "It Should Be Obvious" thread below-- very little revelations have been found in the last several years. It is incremental, subtle, but the gains in real world performance have been breathtakingly small.
There never was a "due date" from Western Powders, and there still is not. Not only have they been buried with the normal QC work, they are also building a completely new laboratory. Their endeavor is elective, not contractual. NATO has been a far higher priority for them, and rightly so. Their President sets the priorities, and the 10ML-II is on the table . . . but is not a priority. I'm not sure what people really expect, but there will be no shocking revelations-- and there is no rush to present much of anything.
Western Powders won't be "directly" releasing anything-- it will be presented to Savage for approval before anything else.
On the topic of "approved" loads, that is more nebulous than it might appear. There never has been a Savage recommended load with a bullet weight below 250 grains, nor has there ever been a Savage recommended load with a bullet weight above 300 grains.
There never has been a Savage recommended sabot other than the short, black MMP sabot-- part number given right in the owner's manual.
There is a world of difference between a "suggested or recommended load" and a "prohibited" load. The prohibited items with smokeless are spelled out-- mixing powders or duplex loads, sub-bases or anything between the sabot and powder, and saboted bullets only. It is all on p.13 of the owner's manual.
Yet, as clear as that is apparently did not dissuade Layne Simpson from using both sub-bases and Powerbelts; both publishing and thereby promoting their use in the latest "Shooting Times". He's not alone-- so it goes.
As it is, 4227, Reloder 7, 2400, 5744, N110, and SR4759 have all been found to be compatible propellants and suggested loads. On top of that, you have Pyrodex RS, Pyrodex Select, Triple 7, blackpowder, and pellets to boot. No muzzleloader offered today has more suggested loads.
From the inception, the loads that Savage has used have been relatively mild, erring on the side of caution and safety as Henry Ball, Bill Ball, Ron Coburn, and Savage Arms have spoken with one voice for the last six years on the matter. The only person not inclined to err on the side of caution and safety with the 10ML project has been inclined to seek employment elsewhere for that reason, among others.
Some sixteen years, if you care to go back where development started.
Right now, the 10ML-II is mature product. There is no compelling reason to offer a wider array of propellants.
Ball / spherical powders are prohibited, flake powders are prohibited, and Hodgdon "Lil" Gun is prohibited.
Bullet weights over 300 grains are NOT recommended.
Safety first, of course. The 129,000 PSI integrity testing was not conducted without purpose. Reliability of course is a consideration-- 4227 was problematic with poorly maintained guns and loose sabots, hence SR4759.
There are many, many workable powders in the 10ML-II -- far more than in a 28 ga. shotgun limited to 12,000 PSI MAP loads.
The basis for the current array of powder choices in addition to the above is availability-- three manufacturers to choose from, four counting Alliant.
Multiple choices from the same powder manufacturer would not be a high priority, as "most shooters" (at least Harvey Most, a friend of mine) neither desire nor need more than one deer load.
