Smokeless Anomaly (Long Post But Please Read)

[Fishbc]

Long post, sorry! I've been shooting muzzleloaders (mostly with Black Powder) for over 40 years and reloading for over 35.
Decided I wanted to start shooting smokeless and I have on order a Patriot. But I still wanted a Savage and after posting on the classifieds I bought a 10 Ml that has been converted to 209 in pristine condition from a member on here. I posted about how positive the transaction was.
I have multiple acceptable powders, bullets, and sabots for smokeless.
Started with Reloader 7, Harvester Black Crush Rib Sabot, 300 Gr. XTP Mag., and CCI 209's
Loaded up. Pulled trigger. Just a primer pop. Waited a minute, then re-seated bullet. Seemed it had moved about 1' down the barrel.
Another Primer. Pulled trigger again. Primer pop. Waited. Re-seated but seemed like load had moved about 10" down the barrel.
Wasn't much resistance when re-seating either time like when I originally loaded (more on this in a moment!!!!!). Maybe I should've realized this was odd.
Hmmmmmmm.......
Repeated process with a Win 209 primer. Primer pop only.
Pulled breechplug thinking possibly the flame channel was plugged although it wasn't when I installed it before shooting.
Pushed load out of barrel from breech end. Powder came out and seemed to match the amount I had loaded. Sabot came out. NO Bullet!! I knew I had not loaded without bullet!!
Decided to look in front of my shooting bench. Five feet in front of my bench was my bullet laying on the ground!! Remember I said not much resistance when re=seating load after the first primer pop?? Well that's because the bullet had left the barrel, and I was only re-seating my sabot. Geesh, never considered bullet could exit but not the sabot!
Reloaded to try again. Only change was Win 209 instead of a CCI. Pulled trigger, Pop.
Checked, but bullet did not leave the barrel as before.
At this point I'm stumped. Sat there thinking what is wrong? I then remembered a post in which someone had a similar problem. I believe in that post a member on here had said with smokeless "Tight is Right". I know that smokeless does nothing if not contained to allow pressure to build. I have set smokeless on fire laying on the ground and it barely burns. Not so with Black Powder!!!
So thought maybe the load isn't sealing in the bore enough to create pressure.
Tried the same load again with CCI 209. But with a Black MMP HPH 12. It was almost unloadable to push down the barrel. Took everything I had to seat the load!!
Pulled trigger. BOOM!!!
Reloaded. BOOM!! Continued shooting for group.
But man it was nearly unloadable. I've loaded some patched round balls that were tight, but wow!!
So tried MMP Black HPH 24 thinking maybe a little easier to load. Still very very tight but easier.
Pulled trigger. Boom. Another tight group at sub 3/4' @ 100 yds. Not bad for first attempt!!
Then tried the load with a Win. 209. Boom. No change in group or impact point.
Soooooo......
I assume the load was too loose? But truthfully it was "pretty dang snug".
I know the primer pushed the sabot down the bore partway. But the bullet left the sabot in the barrel and came out of the barrel. Again that load was not that loose. I've loaded many 1,000's of sabots and it was not that loose!! How did that happen??
It appeared all powder was un-burnt when I pulled those loads (although I did not weigh the charge to see if any was burnt). After pulling the load the barrel was pristine. Why was no powder ignited by the primer????
Seems the post I remember with something similar, that there was a residue in the barrel. Nothing like that in mine.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[smokeeter]

definitely sounds like too loose of a load, try knurling the bullets it should expand the bullet diameter and help grab the sabot.

 

[Fishbc]

definitely sounds like too loose of a load, try knurling the bullets it should expand the bullet diameter and help grab the sabot.

Heard of knurling, but have never done that.
If I knurl the bullets will it make them harder to load?
Can barely load them now. Although it may make the Black Harvester Crush Rib sabot that was so loose work.
The bullet I was using is the XTP Mag which has a heavier jacket.
Can you even knurl those?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Heard of knurling, but have never done that.
If I knurl the bullets will it make them harder to load?
Can barely load them now. Although it may make the Black Harvester Crush Rib sabot that was so loose work.
The bullet I was using is the XTP Mag which has a heavier jacket.
Can you even knurl those?

Yes you can knurl even those. You might also give the .430 XTPs a try, in the green or crush rib green sabots. Plenty of guys getting great results with them.

 

[smokepolehall]

I must have missed the load of RL7, how many gr. Did you use a wad ?

 

[Fishbc]

I must have missed the load of RL7, how many gr. Did you use a wad ?

I worked up to 50 grs. of Reloader 7 in the Savage. Savage data said max is 52
I was not using a wad. I have some.
Also have the plastic sub bases.
Being new to smokeless I didn’t think of trying them.
Thanks
Steve

 

[smokepolehall]

I worked up to 50 grs. of Reloader 7 in the Savage. Savage data said max is 52
I was not using a wad. I have some.
Also have the plastic sub bases.
Being new to smokeless I didn’t think of trying them.
Thanks
Steve

Is it a .50 cal ? I find it odd at a 52 gr max load. Maybe because of a 300 gr bullet weight. I use up to 65 gr RL7 in my .45 under 200 gr bullets. You may want to step up to a faster burning power n drop bullet some.

 

[Fishbc]

Is it a .50 cal ? I find it odd at a 52 gr max load. Maybe because of a 300 gr bullet weight. I use up to 65 gr RL7 in my .45 under 200 gr bullets. You may want to step up to a faster burning power n drop bullet some.

Yes 50 cal Savage ML with 209 conversion.
Savage load data says max of 52 grs. of Reloader 7 with 300 gr. bullet