Bad Range Day - Only 3 of 24 on Paper - Problem???

[SilverHairPatriot]

Went to the range yesterday with my Remington 1858 New Army (First time shooting this one. It's new). Temps at 60 degrees, clear skies, no wind, not sure of humidity levels. I had four loaded cylinders of 30g pyrodex pellets with .454 round balls and I used lube. I had a backdrop of cardboard paper (24 inch wide X 36 inch tall) with a 12" X 18" target positioned center of backdrop paper. I started at 50 yds (have seen here that ideal sighting should be at 75 yds) with the first cylinder and didn't hit anything. I moved in to 25 yds with the three remaining cylinders and placed three rounds at center level but one went 6 inches outside target to the right, the other 6 inches outside to left of target, and the third was about 3 inches right of bullseye on target. four cylinders, 24 shots, 3 accounted for. I was so frustrated and embarrassed that I just loaded up and left the range! Anybody have a clue what is wrong here? If it's me, it's me, but I can't be THAT bad of a shot!

 

[smokepolehall]

I am one to talk here, lol. Not you or the pistol, it didn't like the load combo. Drop to 20 gr n work up. Py. is funny at times N i don't use it personally. Did .454 shave a good ring of lead when loaded ? Lubed meaning you greased the outer chamber for no chain fires correct ?

 

[MrTom]

Does this pistol have an adjustable sight? Maybe start at 12 or 15 yards until you figure the sighting out.

I have little faith in pyrodex of any kind and little in pellets of any kind, so if this was me, they'd be the first to go, especially for use in a pistol. I'd round up some true black or T7 fffg and start at 25 grains with a wad ahead of the powder at the 12 or 15 yards. There's nothing shameful about starting close. Heck, I see bullets being sprayed all over a 20" square at 15 yards by people trying to qualify for a concealed permit. I'm sure you are better than that so get closer until you figure things out.

I took a new Optima pistol to the club's pistol range to sight it and hung a standard pistol target at 25 yards thinking I should be close at this distance. I didn't bother bore sighting the scope. My first three shots missed that target....the scope was about ten inches high. Ha! Remember, you have a pistol and that right off is a handicap.

 

[anonymouscowherd]

I will admit to being weak on handgun shooting and accuracy

My 1858 gives me groups about 50% larger than my CZ75 does, abot 10" or so at 25 yards. Good enough for a solid B class in IPSC ...

Pull it in to 15 yards and see if that helps. Im shooting 451 balls over a criso lubed wad and 30gr 3Fg real black

 

[SilverHairPatriot]

I am one to talk here, lol. Not you or the pistol, it didn't like the load combo. Drop to 20 gr n work up. Py. is funny at times N i don't use it personally. Did .454 shave a good ring of lead when loaded ? Lubed meaning you greased the outer chamber for no chain fires correct ?

Ball shaved good with most having a full ring, some had 3/4 ring of lead but seemed to seat good. I lubed the ends of the cylinder with borebutter to prevent chain fires. I did not use a felt wad with the pellets.

 

[SilverHairPatriot]

Does this pistol have an adjustable sight? Maybe start at 12 or 15 yards until you figure the sighting out.

I have little faith in pyrodex of any kind and little in pellets of any kind, so if this was me, they'd be the first to go, especially for use in a pistol. I'd round up some true black or T7 fffg and start at 25 grains with a wad ahead of the powder at the 12 or 15 yards. There's nothing shameful about starting close. Heck, I see bullets being sprayed all over a 20" square at 15 yards by people trying to qualify for a concealed permit. I'm sure you are better than that so get closer until you figure things out.

I took a new Optima pistol to the club's pistol range to sight it and hung a standard pistol target at 25 yards thinking I should be close at this distance. I didn't bother bore sighting the scope. My first three shots missed that target....the scope was about ten inches high. Ha! Remember, you have a pistol and that right off is a handicap.

I am not sure about adjustable sight. I thought all of the sights had to be filed down in increments. I posted that question on this forum and got some real good answers. See it here.

I want triple 7, or Goex, but can't find here locally. I guess I will have to buy it online and pay the hazmat fee. I am ordering some of each today and will try them out.

I have been told so many different ways to load. I was told best was to lube the end of cyliner with bore butter/crisco mix or plain bore butter rather than use a wad because wads can affect accuracy. If I start at say 15 yds and find a point of impact that matches the point of aim, will I keep the same sight picture at longer distances, or will I have to constantly adjust? And when adjusting sights, you mean only left to right as mounted on the barrel right? You can only lower them by filing them correct?

Sorry, I am new to BP cap and ball.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

My pietta ‘58 shot well with 25gr of fffg T7.
I would recommend you switch to any loose powder instead of pellets. Start at 15-20 and shoot to get use to it. They arent like modern pistols, more like a sidelock/flintlock, form and follow thru are important. Shoot an bunch to get the feel of that gun: trigger, hammer, ignition, fire and smoke, recoil, everything. I cant shoot my bp revolvers without smiling. Accuracy will come with practice. Dont work on the sight just yet.
Btw, Im almost positive that chain fires happen at the back of the cylinder, not the front. Cracked/loose cylinders and loose caps or bent frames. I lube my cylinders, too, but more for stopping moisture getting past the rb. So imho go shoot a hundred rounds and then start looking for groups. I bet youll know what the problem is before you use half a bottle of powder.

 

[bronko220002]

I never shot a black powder revolver. Often thought about buying one but never pulled the trigger. That being said I'm not sure what the capabilities of yours is but shooting at 50 yards is quite a bit aways at least for the first time shooting it. Even 25 yards is a decent poke for one not used to shooting revolvers or handguns in general.
Start at 7 yards then 12 yards. When your happy shooting at those distances then extend your range.
On a side note my cousin and his friend were certified NRA instructors and were contracted to qualify a lot of police departments around the area. Some of the horror stories they told me were unbelievable. They told me that several times during qualifications, shooting at 12 yards, some cops would hit 3 feet in front of the target! Makes me feel all warm and cozy that they are there to protect us............!

 

[Frank in Fairfield]

5 yards
10 yards
Etc.
No target.
Just a piece of paper.

 

[anonymouscowherd]

I never shot a black powder revolver. Often thought about buying one but never pulled the trigger. That being said I'm not sure what the capabilities of yours is but shooting at 50 yards is quite a bit aways at least for the first time shooting it. Even 25 yards is a decent poke for one not used to shooting revolvers or handguns in general.
Start at 7 yards then 12 yards. When your happy shooting at those distances then extend your range.
On a side note my cousin and his friend were certified NRA instructors and were contracted to qualify a lot of police departments around the area. Some of the horror stories they told me were unbelievable. They told me that several times during qualifications, shooting at 12 yards, some cops would hit 3 feet in front of the target! Makes me feel all warm and cozy that they are there to protect us............!

The college I work for has a police academy.... and I've been allowed out on their range to shoot. Range was 3 years old at the time, and had more accidental/negligent damage than the unsupervised public range in the Osceola National Forest.

 

[deermanok]

I used to have an 1858. I never shot past about 15 yards with it.

 

[Jitterbug]

SilverHairPatriot-

Here’s a good read over on the Graybeard forums, by a user named Gatofeo (“Ugly Cat,” in Spanish! )

Lots of good info. Some of it is on Remington-style revolvers, some of it is on Colt-style open top revolvers.

https://www.go2gbo.com/threads/proper-use-of-a-cap-and-ball-revolver.2772/#replies

 

[SilverHairPatriot]

My pietta ‘58 shot well with 25gr of fffg T7.
I would recommend you switch to any loose powder instead of pellets. Start at 15-20 and shoot to get use to it. They arent like modern pistols, more like a sidelock/flintlock, form and follow thru are important. Shoot an bunch to get the feel of that gun: trigger, hammer, ignition, fire and smoke, recoil, everything. I cant shoot my bp revolvers without smiling. Accuracy will come with practice. Dont work on the sight just yet.
Btw, Im almost positive that chain fires happen at the back of the cylinder, not the front. Cracked/loose cylinders and loose caps or bent frames. I lube my cylinders, too, but more for stopping moisture getting past the rb. So imho go shoot a hundred rounds and then start looking for groups. I bet youll know what the problem is before you use half a bottle of powder.

Ordered some Triple 7 last night. Cost was $82 with the hazmat fee. 1 pound. Unbelievable. But that is the price I have to pay to be able to play.

 

[SilverHairPatriot]

I never shot a black powder revolver. Often thought about buying one but never pulled the trigger. That being said I'm not sure what the capabilities of yours is but shooting at 50 yards is quite a bit aways at least for the first time shooting it. Even 25 yards is a decent poke for one not used to shooting revolvers or handguns in general.
Start at 7 yards then 12 yards. When your happy shooting at those distances then extend your range.
On a side note my cousin and his friend were certified NRA instructors and were contracted to qualify a lot of police departments around the area. Some of the horror stories they told me were unbelievable. They told me that several times during qualifications, shooting at 12 yards, some cops would hit 3 feet in front of the target! Makes me feel all warm and cozy that they are there to protect us............!

My recommendation would be for you to buy one. They are fun if you can figure them out. There’s just something about the heritage of it all that makes it most interesting to me. My great grandfather was big on them. That’s what he grew up on, having been born in 1800’s, and before the boom of modern firearm marketing and availability.

 

[SilverHairPatriot]

SilverHairPatriot-

Here’s a good read over on the Graybeard forums, by a user named Gatofeo (“Ugly Cat,” in Spanish! )

Lots of good info. Some of it is on Remington-style revolvers, some of it is on Colt-style open top revolvers.

https://www.go2gbo.com/threads/proper-use-of-a-cap-and-ball-revolver.2772/#replies

Thank you very much, and thank “Ugly Cat,” also!

 

[SilverHairPatriot]

I used to have an 1858. I never shot past about 15 yards with it.

So would you say that’s probably the most effective range for any kind of accuracy, about 15 yds?

 

[fubar22]

I am not sure about adjustable sight. I thought all of the sights had to be filed down in increments. I posted that question on this forum and got some real good answers. See it here.

I want triple 7, or Goex, but can't find here locally. I guess I will have to buy it online and pay the hazmat fee. I am ordering some of each today and will try them out.

I have been told so many different ways to load. I was told best was to lube the end of cyliner with bore butter/crisco mix or plain bore butter rather than use a wad because wads can affect accuracy. If I start at say 15 yds and find a point of impact that matches the point of aim, will I keep the same sight picture at longer distances, or will I have to constantly adjust? And when adjusting sights, you mean only left to right as mounted on the barrel right? You can only lower them by filing them correct?

Sorry, I am new to BP cap and ball.

Some 1858 Rem reproductions actually have fully adjustable modern sights. Mine is a Iver-Johnson made by Uberti. Definitely not authentic, but they are a lot more functional than the originals. If adjusting the sights on your 1858 involves anything more complicated than a small screwdriver, you will want to exhaust the many load changes suggested above before you break out a file or your dremel tool. Working up a load that give you a tight group can be fun, and you will learn a lot about how these old guns actually work.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Ordered some Triple 7 last night. Cost was $82 with the hazmat fee. 1 pound. Unbelievable. But that is the price I have to pay to be able to play.

Yikes! Thats crazy high. Its still on shelfs here at $32/lb. So is Pyrodex, but zero real black. Make sure your nipples are good and clean, also not worn out(if you bought used), tho they dont wear out as fast in pistols due to lighter loads. That info from Gatofeo is excellent. I hope i didnt steer you wrong, as not everyone or all guns shoot t7 well. I went with it cuz theres no real black available and i was worried about Pyrodex being more corrosive. Although now i know better about thorough cleaning. If it doesnt work for you i will try to help you find some different powders to try.

Cabelas sells(or used to) a ‘58 target model with adjustable rear sight. I wanted one for years but got a Ruger old army before i could find one.

Like the others said before, shorten up that range to 10-15 yds and blast away. Pure lead balls, wads under balls, start with tiny loads and work up, try regular and mag caps-10 & 11. Take copious notes about everything. Above all tho, Be careful and have fun. C&P revolvers are so much fun its amazing that they arent illegal.

 

[bronko220002]

So would you say that’s probably the most effective range for any kind of accuracy, about 15 yds?

I'd say that's a lot better than 50 yds. 25 would be about it for me until I could see what it is capable of.
Except for exerpts from history about Wild Bill's exploits most gun fights were really close. The gunfight scene between Doc Holiday and Johnny Ringo in Tombstone was pretty accurate.

 

[deermanok]

So would you say that’s probably the most effective range for any kind of accuracy, about 15 yds?

I think to a point, yes for a basic out of the box gun so to speak.
Something like a Ruger Old Army or similar with good adjustable sights and good load would be better for longer distance.