Black Horn

[charliehugunine]

Has anyone tried using Black Horn in a percussion rifle? You would have to use a small charge of pyrodex to get the BH to ignite

 

[deermanok]

It won't work with standard caps, like # 11 or musket.
You'd have to get one of those magspark adapters to use 209 primers.

 

[drpatton]

It won't work with standard caps, like # 11 or musket.
You'd have to get one of those magspark adapters to use 209 primers.

I have a sh*t load of CCI #11 Magnums. I wonder if they will set it off? Also, maybe the magnums with about 5gr of Swiss 4Fg?

 

[deermanok]

I have a sh*t load of CCI #11 Magnums. I wonder if they will set it off? Also, maybe the magnums with about 5gr of Swiss 4Fg?

Yeah, I don't know maybe a small charge of black powder, 4f or 3f ahead of the Blackhorn will set it off.

 

[ElDiablo]

5 grains of black as an igniter charge for the BH209 works with #11 caps. Never tried Pyrodex as an igniter but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work.

 

[drpatton]

5 grains of black as an igniter charge for the BH209 works with #11 caps. Never tried Pyrodex as an igniter but I don’t see why it wouldn’t work.

Use whichever one burns hottest and fastest. My guess is 4Fg may be the answer. 4FG is quick to ignite and burns fast. I believe faster than Pyrodex. Now is there data to back that? I don't know. I'm sure on some safety data sheet or MSDS, it will show the burn rate and temp.

 

[X-ring]

Use whichever one burns hottest and fastest. My guess is 4Fg may be the answer. 4FG is quick to ignite and burns fast. I believe faster than Pyrodex. Now is there data to back that? I don't know. I'm sure on some safety data sheet or MSDS, it will show the burn rate and temp.

Black powder ignites at a lower temperature that any of the synthetics. A small 5-10 grain charge of 2F or 3F black powder should set off the main charge BH 209 reliably using a #11 primer. X

 

[451whitworth]

Being as Pyrodex and T7 pellets both use a black powder booster on one end I would think Blackhorn would work just fine doing the same.

 

[ElDiablo]

Took one of my .50 Hawken rifles out tonight and got some high speed video of shooting BH209. The following charges were tested with a TC 250 gr Shockwave/MMP HPH12 sabot and CCI #11 mag caps. I didn’t measure velocity or accuracy.

80 grV of T7 3F
80 grV of BH209/5 grW Swiss 2F
80 grV of BH209/4 grW T7 3F
80grV BH 209

I used a Lee .3 cc dipper to measure the igniter charges (which is ~5 grW of Swiss and ~4 grW of T7).

Ignition was immediate and normal except on the BH209 charge without an igniter. I tried three caps - no ignition. I unscrewed the nipple and added about 2 grW T7 3F to the flash channel. That was all it took - instant ignition. I did not swab between shots and ended up with a very clean barrel thanks to the BH209.

It’s interesting to note that you cannot see any burning powder exiting the barrel with the straight T7 load but you sure can with the igniter/BH209 loads. Perhaps this is just more evident due to the thinner smoke plume.

I may do some more testing in the near future with igniter charges but I would proceed with caution with larger BH209 charges.

 

[Smyrnagc]

One of the best write-ups I have seen in awhile! Thanks for taking the time to post this.

 

[charliehugunine]

Took one of my .50 Hawken rifles out tonight and got some high speed video of shooting BH209. The following charges were tested with a TC 250 gr Shockwave/MMP HPH12 sabot and CCI #11 mag caps. I didn’t measure velocity or accuracy.

80 grV of T7 3F
80 grV of BH209/5 grW Swiss 2F
80 grV of BH209/4 grW T7 3F
80grV BH 209

I used a Lee .3 cc dipper to measure the igniter charges (which is ~5 grW of Swiss and ~4 grW of T7).

Ignition was immediate and normal except on the BH209 charge without an igniter. I tried three caps - no ignition. I unscrewed the nipple and added about 2 grW T7 3F to the flash channel. That was all it took - instant ignition. I did not swab between shots and ended up with a very clean barrel thanks to the BH209.

It’s interesting to note that you cannot see any burning powder exiting the barrel with the straight T7 load but you sure can with the igniter/BH209 loads. Perhaps this is just more evident due to the thinner smoke plume.

I may do some more testing in the near future with igniter charges but I would proceed with caution with larger BH209 charges.

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Thanks for all the great info,I haThanks have a lot of bullets to get rid of, and I love the way BH works Thanks again

 

[MrTom]

Even with safety glasses I would not like that flame right off the end of my nose. I'm waiting for a weak spot in a hammer let loose and implant in someone's head. I can't condone this.

 

[ElDiablo]

The reason I filmed this was to get a better look at what is happening with the blow back and hammer upon ignition with BH209. I can’t detect any difference between the 777 loads and BH209 loads at least with this powder charge. The hammer did not jump or reset to half cock and no more blast than usual.

 

[charliehugunine]

Yeah, I don't know maybe a small charge of black powder, 4f or 3f ahead of the Blackhorn will set it off.

Tried an experiment today, pulled the bullet from a 22LR case weighed less than 2gr Loaded 50gr BH209 #11cap Slight hesitation like clickbang hotter prim

 

[charliehugunine]

Tried an experiment today, pulled the bullet from a 22LR case weighed less than 2gr Loaded 50gr BH209 #11cap Slight hesitation like clickbang hotter prim

Hotter primer might work or more powder

 

[Ka'imiloa]

Even with safety glasses I would not like that flame right off the end of my nose. I'm waiting for a weak spot in a hammer let loose and implant in someone's head. I can't condone this.

With the greatest respect, I'll relate here that the methodology of using whatever grains of BP under the nipple in the case of a misfire or failure to load a charge in the barrel has been around pretty much since the advent of caplocks as far as I know, and certainly for the past 65 years I've been involved in muzzleloading. The pressure created by doing this is nothing as compared to the pressure created by a typical ML charge going off. The same should be true with a few grains of Triple7 or the like. But not, of course a few grains of smokeless powder. Don't go that route.
A well-loaded caplock ML rifle with a proper flash channel will has some of its charge right there, immediately beneath the nipple's base. It will be right there every time with most any ML shotgun.
Notably there is quite a bit of flash right before your eyes when a flintlock goes off.
And it is very seldom that a weak spot in a hammer occurs. What does happen at times is that someone puts a nipple in an old or new ML that is the wrong size yet manages to fit the threads enough to screw into place. Bad trouble waiting to happen as far as that nipple being blown out upon firing that gun.
Aloha, Ka'imiloa

 

[drpatton]

Even with safety glasses I would not like that flame right off the end of my nose. I'm waiting for a weak spot in a hammer let loose and implant in someone's head. I can't condone this.

Are you referring to the pictures with the flame of ignition?
Or just cap locks in general?
If a person overloads a caplock and fires, the hammer will go back to half cock, or if it's bad enough, full cock. That may be an issue, but I don't see that in the pics.

 

[MrTom]

Every one of those pictures shows significant flash, or flare-up. And while Eldiablo didn't experience any issues with the hammer, it doesn't mean that every sidelock is as strong as his. I don't think BH209 is meant to be used in sidelocks, maybe they should include a warning on the labels.

It's neither here nor there for me as I wear eye and ear protection when shooting at the club and also wear glasses while hunting.

 

[ElDiablo]

There is significant flash when the cap goes off with all the loads - the straight 777 load included. I didn’t experience any more or less, and the videos don’t show any more or less regardless of the powder type used.

I think lots of guys (most?) don’t realize how much until you see it for yourself in high speed video.

 

[The long rider]

I purchased a 50 cal. Lyman Great Plains Hunter a few years ago, mine is the signature series made by Pedersoli. It has a 1 in 24 twist rate. I also installed a 209 Mag-Spark nipple for a sealed ignition. I have shot Blackhorn 209 powder only in this gun and have never had an issue using 80gr.charge by volume and a 250 gr Alco bullet with MMP sabot.