Black Ice OR Nitrate

[wildcat2]

I am doing a build and would like opinions on choice of barrel and parts coating. I am afraid of a home bluein job might not turn out for me. This will be a 45 Rigby I am doing. Also the man I talked to at black Ice said they have done the complete lock pats also,is this ok.

 

[ENCORE50A]

It'll be interesting the responses.

Other that the slightest bit of reading about Nitrading barrels, if it is as hard as some claim, why couldn't a shooter with a properly fitting BP, have the BP coated? Would it reduce or eliminate flash holes burning out?
I'll be the first to admit, I have no knowledge of it or either.

 

[SuperKirby]

I don't have first hand experience with either, but I've considered both a lot and have looked into them both. Here's what I've found.

Black ice seems to overall be a great product. It holds up to pretty much all chemicals and is pretty tough. It will eventually wear on areas of high contact. The other downside is it does nothing for the inside of your barrel, so especially if you have a raw steel barrel, you'll need something in there.

Nitride is pretty awesome and holds up just as well, plus they treat the inside of your barrel. The downside to it, and the reason I haven't had my barrel done, is that from my research it appears that nitriding stainless steel actually decreases the corrosion resistance of stainless steel. Since my barrel is stainless it's a no go for me. Cost wise there doesn't appear to be much difference.

Hope that helps?

 

[wildcat2]

The ice job is 50 dollars less. And my barrel is a 4140 greenmountain. What about the inside would that not change the dia by a thousand or two?

 

[Cattledog]

I have also looked into both. I would go black ice.

The black ice treatment is performed at a lower temperature than the nitrided treatment. The down side of the nitride treatment is it will change the heat treatment of the barrel, not an issue in an AR barrel but could be in a B.P. barrel. None of the manufacturers of BP rifles will give an exact discription of the metal used or heat treatment used on their barrels. You can get that information on many AR barrels.

In terms of stainless steel corrosion resistance after ferric nitride treatment. I would not worry about the stainless steel being less corrosion resistant. The nitrided surface will be much better than the original stainless steel. I can't see any one here shooting out the barrel using black powder. Imagine 30,000 round of BP... Won't happen in my lifetime.

 

[sabotloader]

I am doing a build and would like opinions on choice of barrel and parts coating. I am afraid of a home bluein job might not turn out for me. This will be a 45 Rigby I am doing. Also the man I talked to at black Ice said they have done the complete lock pats also,is this ok.

I have several parts for my Knights that have had the Nitrate application.

This picture show my Western Ulite, which uses a really dirty percussion cap ignition. The bolt housing is Nitrate finished as well as the breech plug...

The thing is the application of the Nitrate does not change the dimensions or tolerances of the parts. These parts clean up very easily with hot water, stuff just rinse off.

The best part consider the bolt and in this case my bolt has been used in and out - back and forth - up and down so many time I can not even guess - yet they are unmarked. There is a very slight wear mark just ahead of the bolt handle but it is still black no stainless showing through.

Nitrate, done right, very tough stuff

 

[Smyrnagc]

Where can you get a breachplug nitride finished?

 

[ENCORE50A]

sabotloader,

How well do you think that will hold up on that BP?

I'm just wondering if it might be something that may help in the RUs, keeping them from, or reducing any gas cutting of the nipple.
I read that once that is applied, "normal tooling" and/or tooling normally used, might have a problem if something requires done.
Seems that if that is that hard, any new RU breech plug could benefit from it. Maybe shoot more BH from them without gas cutting the nipple?

 

[wildcat2]

I just talked to the folks at H&M Metal and they said it would be cooked at 1000 degrees for 30 minutes and any metal above 36 r hardness that it would bring it back to 36 R when done. I talked to the folks at Green MOUNTAIN and the said my BX4518-2-45 witch is 4140 come molly has a R of 28 to 32. So I quest I am good to go.

 

[chaded]

I have had nitride done by H&M on a stainless barrel and then went and had cerakote done over it. I prefer the cerakote and in my opinion nitride is not all its cracked up to be.

 

[wildcat2]

Is that cerakote a high heat process? I believe that is what is on my pro hunter fx.

 

[sabotloader]

Where can you get a breachplug nitride finished?

Lehigh Dave had some Lehigh plugs done at one time in a testing mode. I got 4 of them from him.

These guys are known to do a good job with the process.

http://blacknitride.com/

These pictures show a Nitrate treated breech plug. It is a plug for a Mountaineer that was modified several years ago, It has been used over and over. It still looks good today.

I use this bolt in my Western Ultra Lite.... It has experienced hell for several years...

Virtually no wear marks at all...

 

[sbuff]

My white thunderbolt in SS is black iced and there is no sign of wear ,flaking or chipping. The action was noticeably smoother after being iced. I am 100% satisfied, if NYS wasn't such a pain in shipping guns I'd get my X7 black iced .
Steve

 

[Cattledog]

Any pictures of the rifle?

 

[SCHUNTER]

I love my black ice coating so far after two years of hunting with it. So far it is holding up better than the gun in Ceracoat.

 

[sabinajiles]

You are comparing apples to oranges. Black Ice is a coating. Nitriding is not a coating, is is a process that physically changes the properties of the steel. As was already pointed out, nitriding can be done to the bore and will not change any dimensions. Any coating can chip, although I'm not saying Black Ice is likely to, but nitride cannot chip and the only way it can wear off is to physically wear away the actual treated steel. I can only speak for CVA quick release breech plugs, but I was told they cannot be nitride treated because they have a sealing rim on the face of the breech plug that relies on actually bending to form fit the mating edge in the barrel and insure a gas tight fit when it is initially installed . Nitriding would make that rim too hard and brittle to bend to a form fit and would it would break. That would not be an issue on other breech plugs that don't have the sealing rim.

 

[Smyrnagc]

You are comparing apples to oranges. Black Ice is a coating. Nitriding is not a coating, is is a process that physically changes the properties of the steel. As was already pointed out, nitriding can be done to the bore and will not change any dimensions. Any coating can chip, although I'm not saying Black Ice is likely to, but nitride cannot chip and the only way it can wear off is to physically wear away the actual treated steel. I can only speak for CVA quick release breech plugs, but I was told they cannot be nitride treated because they have a sealing rim on the face of the breech plug that relies on actually bending to form fit the mating edge in the barrel and insure a gas tight fit when it is initially installed . Nitriding would make that rim to hard and brittle to bend to a form fit and would it would break. That would not be an issue on other breech plugs that don't have the sealing rim.

Question: If you had already seated the CVA plug and formed the matching edge could it not be Nitride treated then and still retain the gas seal?

 

[sabinajiles]

You are comparing apples to oranges. Black Ice is a coating. Nitriding is not a coating, is is a process that physically changes the properties of the steel. As was already pointed out, nitriding can be done to the bore and will not change any dimensions. Any coating can chip, although I'm not saying Black Ice is likely to, but nitride cannot chip and the only way it can wear off is to physically wear away the actual treated steel. I can only speak for CVA quick release breech plugs, but I was told they cannot be nitride treated because they have a sealing rim on the face of the breech plug that relies on actually bending to form fit the mating edge in the barrel and insure a gas tight fit when it is initially installed . Nitriding would make that rim to hard and brittle to bend to a form fit and would it would break. That would not be an issue on other breech plugs that don't have the sealing rim.

Question: If you had already seated the CVA plug and formed the matching edge could it not be Nitride treated then and still retain the gas seal?

That is a good question and one to which I do not have an answer.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

Been considering nitriding my stainless Super 45XR. Would like to do my blued 50 XR, but I REALLY do like faded bluing. Memories...
The main attraction for me is the breech shoulder in the barrel will not pit/erode/deform. Do the plug too and we may have muzzleloader for the ages!

 

[fishhawk2700]

My white thunderbolt in SS is black iced and there is no sign of wear ,flaking or chipping. The action was noticeably smoother after being iced. I am 100% satisfied, if NYS wasn't such a pain in shipping guns I'd get my X7 black iced .
Steve

You can send it out to Black Ice Coatings in Utah. That's the company that did the black ice the White Blacktails, and many other Whites. I spoke with them today , and prices were very reasonable