black powder

[rubby]

for those that use real black powder ,do you prefer 2f or 3f out of your 50 cal. muzzleloader?

 

[Muley Hunter]

I use 3F. It ignites better, has less fouling, has more power, and is cheaper to shoot.

 

[catfishtony]

I use 3F. It ignites better, has less fouling, has more power, and is cheaper to shoot.

i agree 100%
plus i missed 2 deer due to weapon not firing and i missed a deer due to a hang fire.

lesson learned set gun in outside shed over night before hunt then fire 2 caps and swab out
load and never bring back inside during hunting week. this and 3F powder lead to clean instant shot on deer.
as time went on i moved over to pyrodex powder back in the mid 80's and never looked back with a hotter #11
cap added later.i think may have been a old solved problem using a shotgun primer before the # 11 was even made.

 

[Ethang]

3f here too.

 

[GM54-120]

How is a pound of 3F cheaper than a pound of 2F? Around here they are the same price and most people measure by volume.

From the Lee Dipper chart
POWDER ---0.3 --0.5 --0.7-- 1--1.3--1.6---1.9--- 2.2-- 2.5-- 2.8 --3.1--- 3.4---3.7--4-- 4.3 CCs
BLACK FFFG 4.80 8.00 11.10 15.90 20.70 25.50 30.30 35.00 39.80 44.60 49.40 54.20 58.90 63.70 68.50 Grains
BLACK FFG 4.40 7.40 10.30 14.70 19.10 23.50 27.90 32.40 36.80 41.20 45.60 50.00 54.40 58.80 63.20 Grains
BLACK FG 4.20 7.00 9.70 13.90 18.10 22.30 26.40 30.60 34.80 39.00 43.10 47.30 51.50 55.70 59.80 Grains

BTW i prefer 3F too even in my 54cal. It seems like the fouling is a bit softer.

 

[LarryBud]

How is a pound of 3F cheaper than a pound of 2F? Around here they are the same price and most people measure by volume.

From the Lee Dipper chart
POWDER ---0.3 --0.5 --0.7-- 1--1.3--1.6---1.9--- 2.2-- 2.5-- 2.8 --3.1--- 3.4---3.7--4-- 4.3 CCs
BLACK FFFG 4.80 8.00 11.10 15.90 20.70 25.50 30.30 35.00 39.80 44.60 49.40 54.20 58.90 63.70 68.50 Grains
BLACK FFG 4.40 7.40 10.30 14.70 19.10 23.50 27.90 32.40 36.80 41.20 45.60 50.00 54.40 58.80 63.20 Grains
BLACK FG 4.20 7.00 9.70 13.90 18.10 22.30 26.40 30.60 34.80 39.00 43.10 47.30 51.50 55.70 59.80 Grains

BTW i prefer 3F too even in my 54cal. It seems like the fouling is a bit softer.

It's cheaper because one usually backs the volume off 10% or so. Now, does 10% less volume of 3F weigh the same as 10% more of 2F? Perhaps. If this is true then the cost would be the same.

I do shoot 3F but usually T7 due to availability.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Sorry, i'm late to answer. Like Larry says. You use less 3F to equal 2F FPS.

 

[GM54-120]

Sorry, i'm late to answer. Like Larry says. You use less 3F to equal 2F FPS.

If i use 10% less by volume to achieve the same FPS but it weighs nearly the same, how is that a savings? Its sold by the pound not by volume.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Why do you think it would weigh the same? 10% less by volume would weigh less, but have the same power as 2F. Which would give more loads for the same power.

If you don't care about saving money. You can load the same volume as 2F, and have 10% more power.

So, take your pick. More power, or save money. If you work with just 5% you can have both.

 

[GM54-120]

See the Lee Dipper chart above for your actual savings. Its so small its not worth mentioning. Add in the fine powder at the bottom and its probably gets worse but you might get lucky.

4.3 CCs
3FG 68.5gr - 10%=61.65gr
2FG 63.2gr

You save roughly 1.55gr on that load. That's assuming a 10% reduction in volume also reduces the actual weight by 10%.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Lets look at it another way.

You use 100gr of 2F for a certain fps.

You use 90gr of 3F for the same fps.


You used 10% less powder with the 3F. I didn't say you'd get rich using 3f. I just said it was cheaper to shoot. 10% cheaper. Isn't that better than shooting 2F, and having it cost 10% more?

There's no downside to using 3F. If you're not interested in saving money. Load 3F to the same volume as 2F, and enjoy more power.

 

[barkbuster]

I use 3F most of the time, although I have had no issues with 2F.

 

[cayuga]

When it comes to which grain size you have to let the rifle tell you. In many of my .50 calibers, 2f produces better accuracy. As for less fouling... well I'd hate to live on the difference. Also faster ignition, if 3f is faster, you'd never notice it. And more power... again, 100 fps is not going to make you more lethal. More lethal comes with accuracy and shot placement. That's why some of these long distance shooters just amaze me.

Now I do shoot 3f in some of my rifles. My Traditions seem to like 3f better. But my Lyman's rifles like 2f better. In my flintlocks, I almost always shoot 2f as the main charge. Of course the pan powder is 3 or even 4f.

So get a pound of each and let the rifle tell you what it wants to shoot. Good luck with your testing and load development.

 

[gibble888]

I use 2f in all my tc's even my 45 flintlock which is what is recommended by tc...tried 3f in it once cuz everyone was telling me that a 45 takes 3f...so i loaded it with 70 grains just to see and even mu dad said "that didnt sound right!"...it was a shallow "pop" with absolutly no recoil.switched back to 70gr 2f and bang...everything i remember it being. Now that is in MY TC 45 FLINTLOCK....every gun is different.

 

[Muley Hunter]

So, you tried one load, and drew a conclusion?

 

[gibble888]

Nope...gave it a try...didnt like it....not what tc recommends to use...used the rest in my pistol and went back to 2f which cuts holes..why really switch anyway...i guess i was just bored for one moment.

 

[gibble888]

And yes i shot it more than a dozen times...wasnt even comparable in my rifle.

 

[gibble888]

Rubby...the best thing to do is try both and see what works for you and whatever projectile your using.

 

[Nit Wit]

I use 3f KIK or Sheutzen in all my ML's
Nit Wit