CVA Plains Rifle - Pydrodex load questions

[nummy]

Hello everyone -

I just took delivery of a new CVA Accura Plains Rifle, purchased from Muzzle-Loaders.com. I ordered mine in basic-black with a Nikon XR BDC300 scope.

I'm going to use Barnes 250 grain T-EZ sabots, with Pyrodex RS loose powder. I've shot many deer from 100+ yards with this sabot/powder combination, and I'm totally satisfied. A guy on this forum (BuckDoeHunter) suggested this combination to me a few years ago, and I couldn't be more grateful to him !

I realize that a lot of folks on this forum use Blackhorn 209, but I'm going to stay with Pyrodex RS because I can use it in all three of my muzzleloaders, as well as the rifles used by my son-in-law, and his Dad.......so there's no need to reply in regard to how much you like BH209, or how much you hate Pyrodex RS, because Pydrodex RS is what I'm going to use for a propellant. I know that BH209 is great stuff, but I just want to keep things simple and use one brand & type of powder for me and my family.

My question is the confusion regarding magnum powder loads of Pyrodex RS in this new gun: weight, grains, volume, pellets, powder, etc...

The ballistic information that came with the Nikon BDC300 scope suggested a 250 grain sabot and 150 grains of propellant as a good starting point. For example, are they referring to three 50 grain "pellets" equaling 150 grains, or 150 grains of loose powder?.....is 150 grains of loose RS powder the same as three 50 grain Triple 7 pellets?

My specific questions:

1) Can the CVA Plains Rifle handle 150 grains of loose Pyrodex RS powder, or is the accuracy better with a Barnes 250 sabot if a smaller charge is used?.... would 100 grains of RS be a better amount? (my shooting distances while hunting are typically no farther than 175 yards)

2) When references are made to CVA's max magnum charge, is it in reference to actual RS powder by "volume"?......sorry for sounding so uninformed, but when I measure 80 grains of Pyrodex RS, for example, I've always used an expandable brass tube that's graduated - similar to a speed loader. I read statements from people regarding grains by weight vs by grains by volume. Can my new Plains Rifle safely shoot up to 150 grains (by volume) of Pyrodex RS?......if it can, is that too much loose RS powder, or will accuracy be jeopardized in an attempt to shoot at longer distances?

3) Because I'm NOT going to be using BH209 propellant, I didn't have to purchase a special breach plug for the BH209 propellant. What is your recommendation for a primer? Can I use a traditional 209 shotgun primer? Is there a preferred 209 primer to use on a CVA Plains Rifle with a standard breach plug?...primers that provide maximum ignition, but without having to deal with removing stubborn used primers from the breach plug, but at an economical price?

Sorry that was kinda' long - thanks in advance for your guidance & suggestions !

nummy

 

[GoexBlackhorn]

Standard breechplug is all that's required using Pyrodex in your Accura. Volume measurements are the norm in manuals and on boards like this one. If using weighted measurements, members here normally always include the word "weight or weighted", in their posts.
So, a vast majority of members here use 100-120 grains "volume" of powder. There was really no need for me to say 'volume' in this reply to you.

A vast majority use a hotter primer, which is essential trying to ignite Pyrodex loose consistently and effectively, in all kinds of weather. The three most discussed 209 primers here on the board are the hottter ones..... Federal 209A, CCI-M and the blue box Winchester 209.

 

[MrTom]

Primers are cheap to play around with and I guess I think you should try your loads with different primers to see if one does better for you. The Winchester blue box 209's are the longest I believe and minimize blow back in a big way. They're plenty how for your rs too.

150 grains is the max you can load using the rs.....so why start at that point? Besides the extra recoil, you may be missing a very accurate load at much lower powder volume. I'd start at 90 grain and work my way up and do this for every change in bullet weight or brand. Take a notebook and make good notes as you shoot too. Note every change and I do mean every change and not just in the gun/load....weather, temps, humidity...you name it. Record it. If you find an accurate load below that max as suggested by the scope maker use that load and its data as the starting point.

 

[ShawnT]

This is in your Accura Manual

"""

The maximum load in CVA breakaction
guns is 150 grains by volume. This maximum load is generally known as the
“magnum” load and is best suited for pelletized powder due to the more efficient
burning characteristics of the powder pellets. Magnum loads of loose powder may
be used but are not recommended because of their inefficient and incomplete burning
of the powder.

"""""'

There really is no reason to go 150 gn V of loose powder and it is generally not as accurate. You will most likely find that between 100 and 120gnV of Pyro is where it will shoot most accurate.

Most guys that are talking about "Weighing" powder are usually talking about Bh209. Don't recall seeing anyone weighing the other subs. Also remember when you see them throwing powder with a Powder measure/dispenser like the RCBs Charge master or Redding, and RCBS powder throwers they ARE talking about BH (or smokeless). Those units are not meant to be used with Black, Pyro, or 777, any static could cause the powder to be ignited.

Standard shotgun primer are cheaper then the "ML 209" primers but might cause the crud ring to be a bit more. The hotter the primer you use the more pronounced the crud ring can be. I like the Standard blue box Win209 and the Remington STS.

 

[jg2006]

+1 on people talking about weighing specifically BH209, I believe it's the ones trying to get the utmost consistency from shot to shot.

I have an optima and I shoot Pyrodex RS, loose powder, Remington kleenbore primers, and 250 gr Barnes MZ expanders in a crush rib sabot as my bore was too tight for a handful of other sabots.... Ironically BuckDoeHunter was the one that supplied me with several other kinds of sabots to see what fit best.

The Remington primers are just what I happened to buy.... They've worked for me, but I do plan on getting some O-rings to put in the breech plug and reduce blowback.

The Barnes are great bullets, everything I've shot has been a pass through and has dropped in their tracks. Unless I try the Barnes T-EZ, I don't have any plans to change bullets.

Pyrodex RS (loose) has been good to me. It's been reliable and easy to clean, and I go into it with the expectation that if the gun is fired, it gets cleaned the same day so corrosion hasn't been an issue. When I went to the range to sight it in for the first time I started off with 100gr and couldn't get a group for anything. Getting a little frustrated, I upped the load to 120 gr and it was like magic. My groups tightened to just over an inch at 100 yds. I dialed in the Bushnell scope to an inch or two high and it's been a great combination ever since.

Start around 100 gr and see what it can put on paper. Once you get a group, up it 10 gr or so at a time and see what that shoots for a group. I've heard a lot of people say that they get better accuracy with less than 150 gr and it's a waste of powder.... I know I probably lucked into finding that 120 gr works great in my optima, but I honestly haven't tried shooting anything more than 120 gr, or 110 gr for that matter..

 

[NewlyMinted]

3) Because I'm NOT going to be using BH209 propellant, I didn't have to purchase a special breach plug for the BH209 propellant. What is your recommendation for a primer? Can I use a traditional 209 shotgun primer? Is there a preferred 209 primer to use on a CVA Plains Rifle with a standard breach plug?...primers that provide maximum ignition, but without having to deal with removing stubborn used primers from the breach plug, but at an economical price?

Hey, which breech type and primer combo did you settle on for the rifle? Are you still using Pyrodex RS?