Erratic firing-please help.

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ohihunter2014

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So I dropped my gun and scope 25ft last year and tried it tonight and need some help. I bore sighted my scope and it tracked fine. I fired 1rd at 25yrd and it hit 6” low. I adjusted 6” up and it hit 12” low. Could have been my goof up. I went to 50 yards and adjusted the scope down to the bullet hole. I fired 1rd at 50yards and it hit 1.5-2” right off the bullseye and elevation was great. I swabbed the barrel with a dry patch and went to 100yards and adjusted it 1.5” left and it shot perfect. Next shot went 4” high and 3” left. I tried another and it touched the shot that was 2” right. I fired again and it almost touched the shot that was 4”high and 3”left. After this I quit. Could it be the scope? I’m leaning to it not being the scope because it seems to group but not together. Everything has blue lock tire on it also.

I am shooting a CVA optima with 777 FFG and .451 300gr xtp with a smooth harvest sabot and Winchester primers.
 
The xtp is a good bullet for that gun. At least in my experience. You could have indeed damaged the scope. If you have a different scope I'd try it. If not you may have to buy a new one.
 
Might check that scope for a Parallax issue since it was dropped. Parallax issues would cause what you describe, but unless your looking for it might go un-noticed. The worst one I had had 8 inches of parallax in it. Drove me nuts trying to figure it out till I saw it.
 
I had a similar problem with a Leupold I bought used. I just kept refusing to believe the scope was causing my problem till I took it off the rifle getting ready to send it to Leupold to have it checked out, and when I tipped it just so, I heard something. When I shook it, it sounded like a tin can with a rock in it even though it looked perfect and the adjustment knobs seemed to function normally. It went back to the seller as it had a three day return period.
 
Might check that scope for a Parallax issue since it was dropped. Parallax issues would cause what you describe, but unless your looking for it might go un-noticed. The worst one I had had 8 inches of parallax in it. Drove me nuts trying to figure it out till I saw it.
How do I know if this is my issue?
 
The xtp is a good bullet for that gun. At least in my experience. You could have indeed damaged the scope. If you have a different scope I'd try it. If not you may have to buy a new one.
Yeah, it always shoots decent with BH209 and that combo. I couldnt find BH209 so switched to 777 FFG. I have a Vortex Crossfire 4-12 I will take with me tonight and if the Nikon still gives fits I will put this on there for now.
 
To check for parallax, prop your gun on something and get the crosshairs on some kind of target, a rock, a bush, a spot on the wall, make sure it’s empty of course.
Try and not touch your rifle, and move your head around while looking through the scope, if your crosshairs move off of the target and follow your head .movements, that is parallax.
Do this at the distances you are having problems at and you can see how much, if any, that scope has at that distance.
I think all scopes have it at some point from zero to infinity, but some have a second focus knob to help correct for it.
Some of the scopes I’ve purchased have it in the specifications at what range you might experience it at.
http://www.reloadinginstructor.com/parallax---load-testing.html
 
FWIW, This is a side focus Hawke scope with the parallax adjustment wheel that is used to select target range. I have the Nikon scope on my Accura V2 and it has been rock solid accurate for several years. Good luck and Happy New Year.

9jcN0sWl.jpg
 
Bear with me...

a 25 foot drop is a pretty traumatic event for any piece of gear. I think you need to separate the gun and the scope from each other to best isolate the problem. I think the rifle would tell you immediately if there was damage to such a degree that it would be off that much. You would likely feel wobbles or looseness. The barrel and action are married in such a manner, that the most likely problem would be where the receiver is connected to the stock- it's the weakest point. So check everything there and ensure it's all tight and there aren't any welds in the the barrel/receiver screw holes or inlets that have broken or loosened.

It's helpful when you're doing this, or when working on anything mechanical, if you repeatedly scream obscenities at the work piece. My go-to combo is usually, "You G*dd#mn F**in' C**k Su*kin' Murderin' Piece of Wh*re S#it!!!!" But everyone should tailor their work to their own individual personality.

I think, at the distances you're describing, parallax is not the issue. In fact, parallax doesn't really become all that noticeable until you're past about 250-300 yards and at higher magnification. The parallax error is miniscule. For example, a 4x hunting scope with a factory pre-set focus at 150 yards (the point at which is has zero parallax) has a maximum error of only 8/10ths of an inch at 500 yards. At the same magnification, at 100 yards, that maximum is about 1/5th of an inch. Remember, these are maximums. Your head would have to be really cattywampus to achieve the maximums.

If you've checked the mount, and found the rings and base are not wobbling, and everything is properly torqued - and yes, you can over-torque scope rings, which will cause tube compression and cause all kinds of tracking and zeroing issues - ( I suggest starting at about 25 in/lbs for the base and around 15 in/lbs for rings - some manufacturers recommend different settings)... then I think the scope's internals are the issue.

I'm assuming you haven't noticed any obvious damage to the scope - cracked lenses, bent tube, wonky adjustment knobs - then my assessment, with what you're describing, is that the erector assembly is damaged. I believe you stated (and my reading comprehension sucks - I've admitted that here before) that you bore-sighted, and found that the scope was tracking correctly. In my world, "Tracking" is when you place the cross hairs over a target at a given distance, dial in a change in windage or elevation, then return to the original setting and measuring the error, if any, in returning to zero. You would have to have the rifle mounted in a vise so it cannot move while you're fiddling with it and use a grid target that would allow to measure the error. This test is conducted for all 4 directions" up, down, left, right - and each measurement is the same - 25 clicks up, then back down, check for error; then 25 clicks down, then back up, check for error; and so on. You can also do a box test for tracking, which is, say, 25 clicks in all 4 directions in a row, and check how far off the hairs are upon return. That's, for example, 25 clicks up, 25 clicks right, 25 clicks down, then 25 clicks left, which should leave the cross hairs returned to the original position.

Other folk do a different "tracking" test whereby they set the cross hairs on target, then move the scope through the zoom levels and look for drift in the crosshairs as magnification changes. I'm guessing that you weren't messing with magnification changes while shooting, which would eliminate any contributions from magnification changes.

So here's my guess. I think the erector assembly was damaged in the drop. If the damage is only to a single part of the assembly - a spring or some such piece, you may not notice tracking error, because the assembly is not experiencing the stress of recoil. However, when you fire the weapon, the erector is now being traumatized by recoil, and being forced off zero. If that's the case, it's all over but the cussin'. You can either toss the scope or send it in for repairs.

Sorry for the long read. I hope it's helpful.

-Jim
 
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Great advice by @jcnull2305 and @deermanok I wouldn’t necessarily go through the tracking process with a muzzleloader scope unless your shooting long range, Texas windage and elevation is sufficient for most MZ distances, but in your case, it may help you to know what your scope is doing. I reread your OP and going up 6” but moving down 6” at 25 yards sounds super extreme. You either mistakenly turned the dial the wrong way (I’ve done that several times) or that scope is severely trashed.
simplest thing is to put your good scope on there if you don’t find any issues with the gun, and group it at 25 and 50 yards, without moving any adjustment knobs shoot 5-6 shots at each range. You could also put the suspect scope on the gun that wasn’t dropped and do the same thing. Don’t try and zero either scope, merely shoot for a group. It’s just basic troubleshooting. Eliminate one and only one suspect at a time until you get to the root of the problem. Could be as simple as a breech plug, or a load tweak. If the rifle has open sights on it as well, fire a group with those at 25-50 yards.
In thinking this over, I would pull the scope from the dropped rifle and put it on a known good shooter with similar recoil first. That is the quickest way to confirm or eliminate the scope as the issue. If it acts the same way, you know that is ONE of your issues and you can then put a different scope on the dropped gun and proceed from there.
 
I wouldn’t necessarily go through the tracking process with a muzzleloader scope unless your shooting long range
Stacy, you don't have time to go through any process with scopes, or giving any advice here - especially 3 paragraphs worth of advice...

You're supposed to be working on fixing the world's primer issue with red plastic caps!!!

Get back to your cave!! :mad:

111302-Snow-White-evil-queen-laughing-cFPy_zpsp4l8otzx.gif
 
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Great advice by @jcnull2305 and @deermanok I wouldn’t necessarily go through the tracking process with a muzzleloader scope unless your shooting long range, Texas windage and elevation is sufficient for most MZ distances, but in your case, it may help you to know what your scope is doing. I reread your OP and going up 6” but moving down 6” at 25 yards sounds super extreme. You either mistakenly turned the dial the wrong way (I’ve done that several times) or that scope is severely trashed.
simplest thing is to put your good scope on there if you don’t find any issues with the gun, and group it at 25 and 50 yards, without moving any adjustment knobs shoot 5-6 shots at each range. You could also put the suspect scope on the gun that wasn’t dropped and do the same thing. Don’t try and zero either scope, merely shoot for a group. It’s just basic troubleshooting. Eliminate one and only one suspect at a time until you get to the root of the problem. Could be as simple as a breech plug, or a load tweak. If the rifle has open sights on it as well, fire a group with those at 25-50 yards.
In thinking this over, I would pull the scope from the dropped rifle and put it on a known good shooter with similar recoil first. That is the quickest way to confirm or eliminate the scope as the issue. If it acts the same way, you know that is ONE of your issues and you can then put a different scope on the dropped gun and proceed from there.
CVA replaced the rifle so now its just the scope in the equation. I am thinking when I moved it the 6 inches and it shot 12'' different it was me moving the turrets incorrectly. Every adjustment adjusted the point of impact. It was just the two shots that were crazy. I attached a pic of what it did. Same target and same grouping. # are shots fired in order.Capture.PNG
 
Season opens tomorrow and sunday and then its done. I have a vortex crossfire I can swap with but I dont know if I would trust the recoil and that vortex scope. Ill take the crossfire tonight and shoot this for a group at 50yards and see what it does. I am shooting 100gr Vol of 777 FFG. Would not seating the bullet all the way cause such an issue? I am going to clean the barrel tonight and maybe run some BH209 loads through it.
 
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