Extremely bad blowback

[Mikeul50]

Hello you muzzleloaders. ..
New to forum...just purchased a new off the shelf Knight ul .50 cal. western gun...
Did a serious job of cleaning as advised by a fellow mlr...
Went to mountain to shoot..but ran into a problem...gun has had no powder in it..
1...the gun had a musket cap nipple on it from factory...tried to pop some caps but would not fire the musket caps..good indentation..and the interior was torn enough to lose the igniter...but no ignition...none...seven caps...
2..home in garage took off the musket installed the #11 nipple...first cap took three pulls of the trigger before firing..and the blowback of flame out the side of the action was extreme....the cap actually blew off the nipple out onto the floor...
second cap fired on first pull of trigger.. blew a hole through the double folded papertowel and cap blew off the nipple and was straightened out and wedged up under the breech plug hex head...but easily removed...again extreme backblow...
attempted a third cap..took three pulls of the trigger..again extreme blowback and cap dislodged from nipple..again a hole through doubled papertowel....
My questions are.....having practically no experience with ml..is the #11 cap so soft that it dislodges from the nipple after firing...does this sound like normal blowback to you mzldrs...or is this brand new knight ul 50 not doing as it should be...
I have read about some new ventilated breechplug but not seen a picture of it..after spending nearly a grand to get started am I to have to buy replacement parts and I havent even shot this gun...
Thanks for you inputs...although I know a few mzldrs I havent anyone close to physically show the gun too...
I did buy this ml as a family gun....right now I wouldnt even take it to the hill with my wife and kid...not worth a mistake or injury.....

 

[WV Hunter]

Welcome to the board. Sorry to hear about your troubles.
I have no experience with the Disc rifles and #11 ignition...but Sabotloader here does. He has the UL western, I'm sure he can help you out. Hopefully he will pop in here, if not - you could pm him.

Hang around this is a great place.

 

[ShawnT]

All of the Knight bolt action rifles have a secondary safety on the back of the bolt. Is it screwed all the way out? This would be the first thing I would check. If it is still in a little it could cause your ignition trouble. AS WV Hunter said Sabotloader on here has a couple Ultra Lites and one is Western Ignition. He has a lot of time with one. I'm sure he will chime in soon.

In my #11 cap rifles (most plunger rifles) most of the #11 caps do split up one side and I have even had them fall out of the action, yet some stay right on the nipple. There will most likely be blowback from the caps. Not sure how much with the bolt rifle.

By the way.. Welcome to the Forum!

 

[Mikeul50]

Thanks for the fast feedback gentlemen...I had been reading as much as I could from this forum before I purchased this knight ul .50 bolt gun...I guess I was wishing for the genie in the bottle...good luck...as it has been slow for a while...
I am aware of the double safety and it is part of why I purchased the gun...I did fiddle with it as I was trying the musket caps..made sure that it was backed way off as to keep from bottoming out the firing pin...and all seven caps had more indentation than my metallic primers...now the firing pin did not hit dead center of the cap..it was just to the side..of which the compression I am thinking should have ignited the caps.....
Thanks guys

 

[ShawnT]

I did fiddle with it as I was trying the musket caps..made sure that it was backed way off as to keep from bottoming out the firing pin...and all seven caps had more indentation than my metallic primers...

If I am reading this right you are moving the safety in so as to not have the firing pin strike the nipple. Is that what you mean by "bottoming out"? If so you should back that safety ALL the way out. The Cap will "Cushion" the firing pin and not let it be damaged on the nipple. IF you dry fire it without the cap then you can damage the nipple or possibly the firing pin and turning the safety in will prevent that that is it's purpose. But the safety should be all the way out to fire a cap/load.

What do you mean by "Metallic" Primers, 209's?

 

[Mikeul50]

Sorry my mistake of wrong wording...the safety was unscrewed all the way "out" as to let the striker hit the cap into the nipple full force...

I also reload for metallics and shotshell...so as to the indentation in the musket caps the metallics and 290 in my view have a nice smallish dimple...the indentations on the muskets were all realtively the same but much larger area of striking because the firing pin is very large...from my view I dont know why they didnt ignite...

 

[ShawnT]

Oh. Ok. I follow you know. So you only are getting a Dent/ Dimple in the #11 or Musket caps? None of the #11s even split up the side when the firing pin drops? :huh?: If so Something don't sound right. Are the Caps new? I don't have one of the Ultra lights yet to compare. Sabotloader might be your best bet. I'm sure he will see this and chime in.

 

[Mikeul50]

Yes...if I quit stumbling over my fingers...I would be able to show the caps and muskets...I have a great picture of the the caps, muskets and papertowel..but getting it to post on here from my phone may not happen...
Gun and all supplies were bought this Monday...off the shelf of a local sportsmanswarehouse...last ul...I purchased muskets on advice from the salesman and #11 caps on advice from friends of mine that have shot ml for quite a time...
As we have relocated from the Oregon coast to SE Idaho I dont have a buddy to run to to figure this out...
So a recap...
New off shelf knight ul 50 cal.. factory musket nipple installed would not fire musket caps...
removed musket nipple installed #11 nipple...three pulls of trigger to fire first cap..first pull second cap..three pulls on third cap...extreme blowback from all three fired #11..all #11caps split and deformed greatly dislodging from the nipple...
All the musket caps indented enough to show significantly..but no flame...
All #11 split and detached from the nipple...

Hope you folks can make sense of my dribbling information...

 

[WV Hunter]

My #11 plunger knights ... the caps are wasted when finished. They are never on the nipple, sometimes wedged in the hammer face, sometimes down in the breech area. BUT its a hammer that smashes forward, a different setup than you have.

I am not familiar with how the UL #11 firing setup works.

Hang tight, SL will be here to help you out eventually. :yeah:

 

[Grouse]

I just sent Sabotloader a text to look at this. I know he's been working so obviously missed this.

 

[Mikeul50]

Okay...hope this works...
the musket caps had the trigger pulled more than once probably three time at least...so they do show significant indentations...
and obviously the #11s don't show much at all...
the papertowel was just laid on the open western cutout of the bolt not restricted...
hope this makes sense to you all..
and remember there was no loading powder involved.. those burns are from the blowback of the #11 primers only...
Thanks All

 

[sabotloader]

Mikeul50

Mike I am answering this on a tablet so bearwith me...

1. I understand that your Western UL is not igniting Musket Caps and is sporadic with #11`s.
2. You already have a good understanding of the two safeties - the trigger safety and the secondary safety...
3. My nextx question t you would be have you taken your bolt apart and put it back together? This sometimes can be a problem with the correct place to set the hammer assembly
4. I believe you have almost already diagnosed your problem... the hammer is not hitting the cap with a full strike.
5. The musket nipple is just a tad shorther than a #11 nipple that is why you can get them to go off some of the time.
6. blow back with a cap ignition is common - it is also common that the #11 cap blow itself up when it goes off.

You can test my theory somewhat - turn the BP back out of the ML about a 1/4 turn. then set off some #11 caps they will probably go off everytime first time now.

I am north of you in Moscow, ID the easiest and quickest way to fix your problem might be with a phone call but I believe you are going to have to get a new (longer) BP from Knight.

Do you understand how to get a Private Message if I send you one?

mike

 

[Mikeul50]

Well hello guru, seems you are the ul smokepole man...
I do see how to pm you.. haven't the chance to retrieve one yet...
So i guess just fire a note at me and i will try to retrieve it..
thanks

 

[sabotloader]

Well hello guru, seems you are the ul smokepole man...
I do see how to pm you.. haven't the chance to retrieve one yet...
So i guess just fire a note at me and i will try to retrieve it..
thanks

Sent you my phone number in a PM...give a call

mike

 

[Mikeul50]

Good morning...at least better than yesterday....
After a lenghty knight ultralite education last night I believe sabotloader was able to direct me to the main problem of the gun...a short breechplug...seems I purchased one in the low serial numbers that had the tighter tolerances...had to backout the breechplug one full turn to get consistent cap ignition...
So I guess now it is the phone for me to try get a final resolution...
Thanks for the information guys...you are all well worth the time and effort that
your knowledge instills in everyone...

 

[WV Hunter]

Glad to hear it! Hopefully once you get your new plug you will be good to go! Good work SL :yeah:

BTW, I would stick with the #11's if it was me...vs using the musket caps. My personal favorite on my Knights is RWS 1075.

 

[Mikeul50]

WV Hunter..it is by sheer coincidence that those are the #11 caps that I purchased and sabotloader said they are the best...got lucky there...

After my conversation with the Knight rep., I reboxed the ml took it back to Sportsmanswarehouse and they are shipping it back to Iowa as a customer service...thankfully each business agreed that they would take care of the situation...
Cant ask for a better situation...
I understand that these things happen..and will be even more thrilled to get it back and blasting caps at the old cardboard target...and coyotes...

My ears are ringing today..but it is not from any guns going off...
Too much of the Obama shooting his mouth off...

Thanks all and Happy New Year to come...

 

[WV Hunter]

WV Hunter..it is by sheer coincidence that those are the #11 caps that I purchased and sabotloader said they are the best...got lucky there...

After my conversation with the Knight rep., I reboxed the ml took it back to Sportsmanswarehouse and they are shipping it back to Iowa as a customer service...thankfully each business agreed that they would take care of the situation...
Cant ask for a better situation...
I understand that these things happen..and will be even more thrilled to get it back and blasting caps at the old cardboard target...and coyotes...

My ears are ringing today..but it is not from any guns going off...
Too much of the Obama shooting his mouth off...

Thanks all and Happy New Year to come...

Good to hear, its great that both parties are working to take care of you. Keep us posted

 

[Mikeul50]

Hello all...just a quick note to let you know that the ml is at Knight...got confirmation today...it is next "IN-LINE" to be looked at by a kingsman....
Very much appreciate all the guidance from Sabotloader and good natured help from the rest of you...
SOON TO BE SHOOTING....

 

[Squeeze]

all my cap inlines have a flat large firing pin. this seems like a 209 style indent firing pin (bolt setup) with a 11/musket cap breechplug. I dont have a Knight bolt with 11 cap, but I do have plunger style, the schematic of bolt style looks the same. big wide firing pin. Is this the case?