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I agree with you, for sure, subs are finicky. The time and money ive put into fixing, modifying, or replacing ignition systems and breech plugs to get reliable ignition and easy cleanup...
Maybe ill start making my own powder.
 
Its all part of muzzleloading, cleaning, repairing and fixing.

I Couldn’t agree more! I thoroughly enjoy cleaning my Blackpowder Rifles, it’s just as much a part of the Hobby as Shooting them :lewis: This stuff has a way of growing on some of us :) you can become addicted and have a Safe full of these Guns (like myself, and MANY others) But It’s definitely NOT for everyone! I always tell new guys looking toward it, If you can’t make the time required to Clean these Rifles Properly, You should look toward another Hobby.

Sadly, A Muzzleloader has a REALLY TOUGH time finding a GOOD Home
 
The main reason i never started shooting real black is that is has always been really hard to find here in SE Michigan. You could always get either pyrodex or 777. And the guys that got me started steered me to 777. So there was beginner bias. I still to this day cant find real black in stock or places willing to order it w/o charging a lot in hazmat and extra handling fees. Sometimes ill meet someone at the range who's willing to part with some. But thats getting more rare.
A couple of reasons people have problems with finding real black powder is because it is classified as an explosive. Then there is the rule that can's or jars of black powder can't be sitting out on a shelf in the store. It can't be sitting out on the shelf because Federal rules say it must be locked up in an approved, locked storage locker at all times unless it is brought out for a immediate sale. Because of this, often the sales people in the store's don't even know the store carries it.

Then, the store must have a Federal Explosive license to sell any black powder they might have. Other problems is, some states have other rules on top of the federal rules limiting the amount of powder that can be stored. Sometimes, owners of the building have rules that don't allow storage of explosives in their buildings and, some insurance companies charge a lot of extra money to cover a building that has explosives in or around it.
Add to these problems the fact that only people who shoot muzzle loading or black powder cartridges are interested in buying it and there aren't very many of us.
Because of all of this, many gun stores don't even want to bother with trying to sell real black powder.
That is why I suggest that if your interested in buying some real black powder, call around to the various gun stores in your area. Be sure to ask to talk to the manager or owner. If they do sell it, try to get there and buy it. The store that goes to the trouble of supplying it for us deserves your support.

I do think shooting real black powder is worth it if you want to have an instant ignition in your gun and this can be real important if you are hunting. Because of its low ignition temperature, real black powder will not have the pause or "hang time" many of the synthetic powders seem to have.

If your curious about the reason the various synthetic black powders can be sitting out there on the shelf in a gun store it is because these powders are not classified as an explosive. The government considers them to be the same as smokeless powder which is a "propellant". No special storage, special laws or special insurances are required.
Maybe some day the government will reclassify real black powder as a propellant but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
 
..........................I do think shooting real black powder is worth it if you want to have an instant ignition in your gun and this can be real important if you are hunting. Because of its low ignition temperature, real black powder will not have the pause or "hang time" many of the synthetic powders seem to have....

If the substitutes are stored properly and used correctly they have instant ignition too.
 
If the substitutes are stored properly and used correctly they have instant ignition too.
Perhaps, but I've had a number of cases during the last 10 years when I was shooting a brand new bottle of Pyrodex in my rifles and every so often I would hear the pop of the cap followed by maybe 1/8 to 1/4 of a second of a delay before the powder actually fired the gun. The delay was enough to be very noticeable.

I always make sure the hammer is at half cock and there is no remnants of a cap on the nipple before I start to load so there is no reason that the new powder wouldn't be blown down to the base of the nipple when I rammed the patched ball. Also, several of the guns that have experienced these noticeably delays were custom built by me and they use a side drum screwed directly into the side of the barrel. The "flame channel" is at most 1/2 inch long and it is over 1/8" in diameter.

I was usually using #11 CCI percussion caps and sometimes RWS caps which are noted for their "hot" flames.
 
Perhaps, but I've had a number of cases during the last 10 years when I was shooting a brand new bottle of Pyrodex in my rifles and every so often I would hear the pop of the cap followed by maybe 1/8 to 1/4 of a second of a delay before the powder actually fired the gun. The delay was enough to be very noticeable.

I always make sure the hammer is at half cock and there is no remnants of a cap on the nipple before I start to load so there is no reason that the new powder wouldn't be blown down to the base of the nipple when I rammed the patched ball. Also, several of the guns that have experienced these noticeably delays were custom built by me and they use a side drum screwed directly into the side of the barrel. The "flame channel" is at most 1/2 inch long and it is over 1/8" in diameter.

I was usually using #11 CCI percussion caps and sometimes RWS caps which are noted for their "hot" flames.

I had the EXACT same thing happen with Pyrodex P, I Even had it Partially go off where the Bullet didn’t even make it to the Target? The Shot sounded odd? Hardly any Recoil, and Bullet didn’t make it to the Target, That happened 2 times, on 2 Different Outings. The ONLY Substitute powder that I haven’t had any issues with is Triple Seven 3F, I have only Shot it a Couple of Outings, it has went off without a Hitch the few times i have Shot it.

Here is where the Rest of that Can of Pyrodex P Went, Same Resting place as the Can of BH209 ;)
LXIuP2cl.jpg
 
My first experience with Pyrodex P was ME Missing a Whitetail Buck Due to a BAD Hangfire, This was with Idahoron’s “Hotrod Hawken” when he was here on his Whitetail Hunt. Ron and i had Shot his Rifle, Came home and Cleaned it, Ron Oiled it up Good, I brought the Gun in my House that night, Propped it against my Wall Barrel Up, The next morning Ron and i Ran a Few Dry Patches Through the Bore, Pushed a Clean Dry Patch Down and Popped 2-3 Caps Through the Gun, You could See the Slight Burn on the Patch. Ron loaded the Rifle and we Headed out, Ron had already Filled his Tag, I was gonna be the Shooter, and Hoped to Kill a Whitetail Buck with Ron’s Old “Hotrod Hawken” We found a Buck, i Bailed out, Cocked the Rifle, Set the Trigger, Settled the Pin Behind the Bucks Shoulder and Touched it off, POP.....................BOOM, HANGFIRE! Of course it was a Miss, the Buck was Long Gone

What happened? First off i was a COMPLETE “Rookie” THEN, I didn’t know much about this Stuff? Ron was the Guy with the Experience. When I brought the Rifle in my House the Day before, after we had Shot, Cleaned, and oiled the Rifle, I placed the Rifle “Butt on the Floor”, Barrel up against my Wall. This would have Allowed the Rem Oil To Run down in the Patented Breech, Fire Channel, And Obviously settle under the Nipple. Even though we Ran Dry Patches Down, and Popped 2-3 Caps off on a Dry Patch, There was likely oil residue on the Patented Breech Walls, Fire Channel, and under the Nipple. This is VERY Likely what happened?

Looking back on that situation, Now that i have the experience that i do, if i had the Above to do over, FIRST OFF i would NEVER have Sprayed the Stainless Barrel Full of Oil, i would have left the Clean Rifle BONE DRY since we were gonna be bunting with it the Next morning. But since the Oil Had been Sprayed LIBERALLY down the Bore, I would have ran a Few Dry Patches, THEN Pulled the Nipple, BLASTED Compressed Air Through the Nipple itself, Then Through the Nipple Hole in the Breech of the Barrel with Muzzle Pointing Down, FORCING any possible oil down in the Bore, THEN Ran a few more Dry Patches to Get what possible oil i had Just Blown out from under the Nipple, Fire Channel, And Patented Breech. THEN I would have pushed a Clean Patch Down til it Stopped at the Breech Plug Shoulder and Popped the 2-3 Caps off. The Gun should have Went off without a Hitch if this Procedure had been done. If it was REAL BLACKPOWDER i GUARANTEE it would have Went off!! Pyrodex P? It Should have? The above procedure is DEFINITELY gonna give it the Best Chance of Going off

I even made a Video explaining this Procedure, I have NEVER EVER Had a Hangfire of ANY Sort with Real Blackpowder after Doing this Procedure with my Sidelocks. EXCEPT when i had the Can of Pyrodex P :) I tried Pyrodex P at least 3 Different outings, with a Flash Hole that measured .033, It HungFired EVERY TIME on the First Shot, even Fizzled and Bullet didn’t make it to the Target. After my 3rd outing, It made a final trip out to my Driveway, I poured it in a nice line, and lit on Fire, BURN BABY BURN!!! :lewis: Maybe i got a Bad Can of Pyrodex P? I hear it can go Bad? I’ll never know



 
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HOLY CLOWN Show!! READ THE LAST PARAGRAPH OF MY LAST POST, Please Point out what i did Wrong?
Now...…….. don't get your panties all ruffled up ;)

Yeah, what you indicated in the end was, that if things were done right in the first place the problem wouldn't have existed.
 
I have NEVER EVER Had a Hangfire of ANY Sort with Real Blackpowder after Doing this Procedure with my Sidelocks. EXCEPT when i had the Can of Pyrodex P :) I tried Pyrodex P at least 3 Different outings, with a Flash Hole that measured .033, It HungFired EVERY TIME on the First Shot, even Fizzled and Bullet didn’t make it to the Target.


Where do you see that here?
 
Where do you see that here?
Your post #30.

"Looking back on that situation, Now that i have the experience that i do, if i had the Above to do over, FIRST OFF i would NEVER have Sprayed the Stainless Barrel Full of Oil, i would have left the Clean Rifle BONE DRY since we were gonna be bunting with it the Next morning. But since the Oil Had been Sprayed LIBERALLY down the Bore, I would have ran a Few Dry Patches, THEN Pulled the Nipple, BLASTED Compressed Air Through the Nipple itself, Then Through the Nipple Hole in the Breech of the Barrel with Muzzle Pointing Down, FORCING any possible oil down in the Bore, THEN Ran a few more Dry Patches to Get what possible oil i had Just Blown out from under the Nipple, Fire Channel, And Patented Breech. THEN I would have pushed a Clean Patch Down til it Stopped at the Breech Plug Shoulder and Popped the 2-3 Caps off. The Gun should have Went off without a Hitch if this Procedure had been done."
 
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