Federal copper BOR Lock?

[alaska viking]

The concept of the Federal copper B.O.R. Lock is intriguing. I have looked on-line for reliable reviews, but they are lacking, other than those complaining about price, (although Midway is currently out of stock. )

Does anyone here have experience with them? Are they suitable for game such as bears, (thick hide, heavy bone), or more suited to deer-size game?

And while they claim they are very easy to load, do they stay firmly seated while hunting in the field?

Novice questions, but bear with me.

 

[GregK]

First if you're required to shoot this kind of bullet then your choices are a bit limited. The testing done has shown that with 110gr of BH209 (by volume) they perform pretty well inside of 150 yards. Beyond that they fail to expand properly.

If you aren't required to use a "sabotless" bullet I would go to the Hornady Monoflex or the Barnes TEZ

Yopu can buy any of these from Carlos at Ed's Gun Shop 910-692-7936

Hope this helps, Greg

 

[Anonymous]

If you aren't required to use a "sabotless" bullet I would go to the Hornady Monoflex or the Barnes TEZ

Hope this helps, Greg

So the consensus is the Hornady Monoflex, Barnes TEZ and Knight Bloodlines are the best of the fast production ML bullets made today?........ sound about right Greg?

 

[NTProf]

Thought about trying these out for elk here in CO (sabots are illegal), but not sure of the 270 gr. Wish they made a 300+ grain.

 

[ronlaughlin]

The concept of the Federal copper B.O.R. Lock is intriguing. I have looked on-line for reliable reviews, but they are lacking, other than those complaining about price, (although Midway is currently out of stock. )

Does anyone here have experience with them? Are they suitable for game such as bears, (thick hide, heavy bone), or more suited to deer-size game?

And while they claim they are very easy to load, do they stay firmly seated while hunting in the field?

Novice questions, but bear with me.

Have quite a lot of experience shooting this bullet at targets, and jugs filled with water, and pop cans and stuff, but have zero experience using this bullet on animals. They do load easily, but it doesn't seem they would walk off the powder, except maybe whilst riding around in a car on rough or smooth roads; which would be easy to fix.

As, GregK mentioned they seem to quit expanding after about 150 yard when pushed by normal powder charges. They will expand beyond 200 yard in water filled jugs, if one uses 130g of powder. This indicates to me the bullet would work just fine on Black Bear, with thick hide, and bone. What i have observed is when the bullet gets too slow to expand, it penetrates deeper than it does when moving faster.

If i lived in Colorado, this would be the bullet i would use for muzzle loader elk season. It expands just fine out to any distance i would try to hit an elk, using iron sights.



All the bullets i have tested through simulated hide kinda fail at low speeds except for the Lehigh. What happens to the Barnes, and Hornady hollow point, and tipped bullets is the nose fills with carpet, and/or plywood, at low speeds, and they don't expand. However, they do penetrate deeper because of this. The Lehigh is the only bullet that works as designed, at any reasonable speed, at least in my experiments.

 

[Muley Hunter]

I might consider trying them for deer. I wouldn't use them for bear and elk until I see more positive results on animals.

Just my .02

 

[ronlaughlin]

Don't you think, because they are prone to not expand, they would work better on elk than on deer?

 

[GregK]

If you aren't required to use a "sabotless" bullet I would go to the Hornady Monoflex or the Barnes TEZ

Hope this helps, Greg

So the consensus is the Hornady Monoflex, Barnes TEZ and Knight Bloodlines are the best of the fast production ML bullets made today?........ sound about right Greg?

Yes that is what I'm saying
Greg

 

[Muley Hunter]

Don't you think, because they are prone to not expand, they would work better on elk than on deer?

Might as well shoot a hard cast bullet if we wanted no expansion. At least it would have a wide meplat which makes up somewhat for no expansion.

A bullet like the Federal that doesn't expand will just blow right through, and the elk will probably run a long ways.

 

[52Bore]

No experience here. But, I have a question for those that do.
Have you ever experienced a ring in a barrel from these? If a gap exist between the base and the actual bullet - their is a chance of 'ringing' a barrel. Leaving a gap in a BPCR will at some point put a ring in the chamber when the wad slams into the base. I know guys who've done it.
Maybe, this gap is minimal when loading this bullet? Does the gap collapse when seating the bullet at the powder?
Sorry for all the ?

 

[alaska viking]

I have, basically no requirements, here. In fact, for S.E. Alaska, probably cutting edge, if you will. I can't buy any supply's, no one knows two wits about this whole thing, and as such, am winging it.
Somebody has to go first, right?
I will probably end up with the Barnes TMZ 290's, just due to the fact that pretty much anywhere I hunt has animals much larger than I, if you get my drift, (if the rifle likes them).
That said, I am open to whatever works.
I have to assume that most here are far more knowledgeable in this endeavor than I. Therefor, I am all ears.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Pete, you know as well as i do, that the Federal bullet will expand at any range you or i shoot it at an elk, using iron sights.

 

[Muley Hunter]

Yes, but i'd still like to see the results on an elk.

 

[sabotloader]

Pete, you know as well as i do, that the Federal bullet will expand at any range you or i shoot it at an elk, using iron sights.

Ron in all honesty - I would not trust it at all and you might be right - BUT with an elk which for me are a bit hard to come by - I would not shoot a bullet that I did not have complete faith in.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Nor would i, so i guess one can assume i have complete faith in this bullet. We all understand it's limitations. It is necessary to keep the speed above 1100 fps. Hunting elk in Colorado requires the use of iron sights during muzzle loader season. Iron sights require shots at fairly close range for me, which means this bullet will work perfectly on elk. This is a good sturdy bullet.

Keep in mind... the Nosler bullet you used on elk, has the same limitations as this Federal bullet, and it worked good for you, for years.

Probably hundreds, if not thousands of elk have been killed in Colorado using them skirted soft bullets that are pushed by CVA. Most agree they are a lousy bad bullet. This bullet is far superior to those.

Yes i have complete faith in this bullet.

 

[sabotloader]

Nor would i, so i guess one can assume i have complete faith in this bullet. We all understand it's limitations. It is necessary to keep the speed above 1100 fps. Hunting elk in Colorado requires the use of iron sights during muzzle loader season. Iron sights require shots at fairly close range for me, which means this bullet will work perfectly on elk. This is a good sturdy bullet.

Keep in mind... the Nosler bullet you used on elk, has the same limitations as this Federal bullet, and it worked good for you, for years.

Probably hundreds, if not thousands of elk have been killed in Colorado using them skirted soft bullets that are pushed by CVA. Most agree they are a lousy bad bullet. This bullet is far superior to those.

Yes i have complete faith in this bullet.

Also keep in mind its checkered history - this is the second time they have released the bullet. The first batch were even worse and I am not sure they have it right yet.

And you are correct on the Partitions - but I know they will work at 800 fps - I found that out along time ago. Haven't you proved that the Feds do not work at that velocity?

We have the same restrictions here only even tighter. I have no problem shooting an elk @ 200 with a peep sight if the conditions are correct. The one 2-3 years ago was at 186. But she was standing there like a rock and slightly uphill lightly snowing and very little breeze... perfect.

 

[GM54-120]

Contrary to what a couple reviewers have claimed on other forums. This bullet is NOT 100% copper. Federal's website clearly states its a copper alloy. They should not even call it a 270gr bullet when it appears the actual copper alloy bullet is 250gr.

Personally if i was going to shoot a 50cal 250gr bullet, i would be far more likely to try some Thors or even a Barnes 275gr Expander MZ sized/knurled to fit my bore.

 

[ronlaughlin]

In the linked thread three bullets were shot through carpet, plywood, and water jugs 25 yard away. The powder charge was 50 grain. The hollow point bullet did not expand,and went right through all jugs. The tipped bullet did not expand either. The Federal bullet does about the same as these two bullets.

This morning curiosity had me try a non-hollow point bullet. All things were equal--the range, target, and powder. The bullet this morning was the 240g Deep Curl, and it did not expand. Shown below next to a unfired bullet.

It had occurred to me that the reason the hollow point and/or tipped bullets did not expand was because they got plugged with fibers of carpet, and plywood, and testing shows this to be true. However, one can see the non-hollow point bullet did not expand either.

A while ago the Nosler 300g Partition was shot through carpet and plywood using the same powder charge of 50g Blackhorn, and at a range of 25 yard. That bullet did not expand, and is shown below with an unfired bullet.

All these bullets did not work as designed when pushed by 50g of Blackhorn and shot through a replicated hide, bone, and lungs/heart.
The Lehigh 245g Controlled Fracture bullet is the only bullet that worked.


Why are you boys so down on the Federal bullet when all it did was work just like all the rest of the 'accepted' bullets?

 

[Muley Hunter]

I'd prefer to see a different test. Use a full hunting load. Whatever that is for you. Test at 25yds to see any over expansion, and also at 150yds to see if it expands ok.

Those who shoot farther are in the minority. The average shot for CF hunters is less than 150yds for elk in Co. For sure it is for muzzy's.

I'm not sure about the carpet Ron. Would a hide plug up a bullet like that? I know leather is expensive, but that would be ideal.

 

[txhunter58]

Due to neck issues, I don't like to go above 90-95 gr of BH 209 because of recoil (I have already had two cortisone injections). How would it fair for an elk with that powder amount? Granted, my current load was with a 350 FPB, which would increase the kick a little over a 270 gr bullet, but still think jumping to 110 gr would pack a wallop.