Finally shot my flinter today

[patocazador]

I got the accessories I ordered from TOTW yesterday including the flintlock flush kit so I loaded and shot my flintlock today for the 1st time.

I found right off the bat that the flash and lag time are going to take some getting used to.

I shot offhand at 25 yards and flinched a bit on the 1st shot during the slight pause from pan flash to total ignition. The ball hit at 7 o'clock about 6" low. I tried to aim higher on the 2nd shot and missed the 10" x 20" target completely.
The 3rd ball I loaded was rather tough seating it all the way down due to fouling. I flinched just the slightest amount and the ball hit 5" low at 5 o'clock. 

I was shooting a .440 PRB in .018 ticking with 55 gr. of 3FG Goex.

I know that I need to dress down my front sight but I want to get a good group first so I don't mess it up. Therefore, I'll wait until I shoot from a bench at 50 yards. I think I will need to swab after every 3rd shot or go to .015 patches. I also got some .445 balls to try. I know they're going to be very tight.

Overall, I couldn't tell much about how accurate the gun is due to all the variables plus my flinching and failure to 'follow through' after pulling the trigger.

The flush kit also didn't work without a problem due to how high the stock goes up the barrel. The clamp arm can't get a good purchase on the left side of the barrel so the o-ring around the touch hole wasn't sealed completely.

 

[exMember]

Experiment with less amounts of priming powder, also try different locations of the priming powder. I always keep mine close to the touch hole, others say to keep it away from the touch hole. IMO when you are hunting, its all over in the pan, spread out LOL, so its just going to be one of those " my rifle like it best" way.

 

[patocazador]

There's not a perfect seal between the lock and the side of the barrel and some of the priming powder fell into the crack between the lock and stock/barrel. I used 4FG from a TOTW small priming tube with a 3 gr. dispenser. I weighed the "3 grains" and it varied between 1 3/4 gr. and 2 1/2 gr. It went off right now each time but there was a lag of approx. .05 (5/100) seconds between the pan flash and main ignition. Not long but enough to notice.

I may try 3FG as the priming powder next time to see if I can get it next to the touch hole without it dribbling into the lock area. The larger granulation may not go through the crack.

 

[Spitfire1]

May want to fill the crack.

 

[patocazador]

I think I'll inlet the lock a little more and see if it will contact the barrel flush before filling it in. I have to bed the stock anyway due to a split near the nose.

 

[exMember]

I'd just use some jb weld on the lock mortise and then lay the lock down into it. Some johnsons paste wax on all the metal parts except where it needs to stick to the lock to fill the crack, should do great.

 

[Smokin' Joe]

Pato, to over come the flinching, keep your concentration on the bullseye.  I use 2F in the barrel and 4F for the pan and when I pull the trigger there isn't much of a delay at all.  I squeeze the tigger and it pretty much goes boom.  Most important, keep shooting your flinter to get comfortable with the flash and delay.  I another thing I do is continually check the gap between my flint and the Frizzen with the hammer at half cock.  Keep it 1/16" to no more than 1/8th inch to prevent misfires.

 

[patocazador]

I'd just use some jb weld on the lock mortise and then lay the lock down into it. Some johnsons paste wax on all the metal parts except where it needs to stick to the lock to fill the crack, should do great.

How do you keep the epoxy, accra-glas, etc. out of getting into the lock's mechanism and interfering with function? ... will Saran wrap work to act as a impediment to the goo from getting up in it?  :scratch: 
(I'm not talking about a separating medium to keep things from sticking but a barrier to having the stuff jam up the lock in all the little crevices.)

 

[exMember]

that would help. Most of the time you can just gut the insides and just use the lockplate.

 

[Spitfire1]

Something else you can look at to cure the 'hang time' between firing and the shot going off is the vent liner , if it is worn it will cause trouble.

 

[patocazador]

I've read about the "vent liner" but don't really know what it is or what it does.

 

[Spitfire1]

It lines the touch hole to slow down flame erosion.

 

[patocazador]

Oh, that little circle thingy?  

 

[Spitfire1]

Yep

 

[Randy Johnson]

I started to post this the other day but my ‘puter did a little hiccup and I lost everything I’d written. This is the first chance I’ve had to try it again.

First of all, forget filling in the gap between lock and the barrel. Go with your first instinct and inlet the lock deeper.

If there is a noticeable lag between the fall of the cock and the main charge igniting, you are doing something wrong. Currently, I am shooting three different flintlock long guns on a more or less rotating basis. A rifle made by Ken Moors, an Early English trade gun in 20 gauge from North Star West, and an Officer’s Fusil, (16 gauge) also from North Star West. Occasionally I will reach for a .36 mountain rifle I bought “off the rack” years ago when TVM still had a booth at Friendship. Every one of ‘em goes off fast enough that I feel safe in saying that there is no noticeable difference between those flintlocks and the few cap guns I have. True, once in a great while - like once or twice out of every hundred shots or so - I will get a very slight, noticeable delay in ignition. When it does happen I blame myself.

I have already said it, but I will say it again. The number one rule for fast, reliable ignition with a flintlock is: Always run a vent pick through the touchhole before closing the frizzen. I have sent thousands of rounds downrange from flintlocks, and I have never, not once, weighed a priming charge. I fill the pan. If there is a tad too much I will strike it level with the wire on the vent pick. I do use 4f for prime out of habit but more than a few folks use the same powder they use for a main charge. It does simplify things and there is no noticeable difference in ignition time. (Tests have been done with instruments that prove it. There is a difference, but not one the human mind can perceive.)

In an earlier post on another thread I covered how to cure flinching. Someone in this thread covered it as well. It’s all about concentrating on the target.

Since the NMLRA banned blowing down the barrel, I habitually swab between shots. That will take care of most of the difficulty in loading due to fouling problems.

It took me years to learn how to easily clean a flintlock.

I have one of those flush thingies too. Not real sure where it is, but I have one.

Remove the lock. Stick a round toothpick in the touch hole. Tilt the rifle back with the bottom of the stock on top to prevent any spillage from getting between the stock and the barrel. Carefully pour cold water down the barrel until full. Set it aside while you clean the lock. By the time you have the lock cleaned and oiled, the fouling in the barrel will be ready to swab out. Tilt the gun muzzle down and remove the tooth pick. Put a drop of dishwashing detergent on a wet patch, fold it and rub it between your fingers to spread the soap around. Make several passes down the barrel. Follow up with some water only patches and finally with dry patches. I prefer RIG over anything else for bore protection.

Hoppe’s 9 plus will work all by itself, but water and Ivory dishwashing soap is cheaper.

If you have one of those little gadgets that throws a priming charge by depressing the spout, prepare yourself for some more aggravation. The voice of experience again. In cool to cold weather and/or low humidity they work as advertised. However, when the heat and humidity of summer hits, they clog up like you won’t believe. I went to using simple priming horns a long time ago.

 

[patocazador]

Thanks, Randy, for the toothpick tip. That flush kit is a PIA.

Yes, I do have one of those priming gadgets and it does not dispense a consistent charge but seems to work OK so far. It's been in the low 80s here lately and it seems to work sufficiently.

When swabbing between shots, do you use a dry or a damp patch?
The lag time between pan flash and main ignition is very short but I can hear 2 sounds .. POOF, BOOM!

I bought some Prussian blue from NAPA and inletted the lock farther in. I was having trouble with the wood impinging on the trigger or the sear as full cock wouldn't hold when all was flush and tight. I think I finally solved that. The lock was originally inletted on a tilt towards the bottom and the top edge was impinging on wood along the side of the inlet.

I still have to bed the stock to fix the crack and front edge of the lock. Then I will install a front swivel through the tenon of the middle thimble and place a "button on the stock at the rear.

Thanks for the primer on ironing out bugs.

 

[Archie otto]

In regards to the flinch, Like others have said, concentrate on basic shooting skills of sight picture breathing and trigger control and then hold your sight picture until the smoke clears.  Like any other shooting, anticipate the recoil or flash is what creates the flinch.  The only way to get rid of it is through practice.  Shoot lots and lots.

 

[Spitfire1]

Pato I always use a patch that I lick to get it damp to swab between shots.

 

[Randy Johnson]

One of the promises I made to myself when I decided to start shooting again two years ago was that I would never use a spit patch. The exception to that is swabbing between shots. Usually I use a new cleaning patch about every five to ten shots. The first time it’s used, it ain’t just dampened, it’s chewed. It seems to help it do the job a little longer. As long as I’ve been doing this, I’ve never tried sticking a used cleaning patch in my mouth yet. I like the smell of black powder, but I don’t think I’d care that much for the taste. Anyway, as I’m doing it, the main purpose is to expel out the touch hole anything that might ignite the fresh charge when it goes down the barrel. It isn’t exactly like I’m cleaning between shots, ’cause after the first trip down the barrel the patch is going to be black. I keep using it until it looks too caked with fouling or starts to disintegrate. But, I don’t think I ever have to stop and actually clean the bore. I can shoot all day long just by swabbing between shots.

As far as the poof… boom goes…. That simply should not be happening.

Try my suggestions about priming first. In addition, at the range anyway, try pushing a tiny amount of priming powder into the touch hole after you have cleared the vent with the pick. If it still happens you need to start looking elsewhere.

Are you getting a good shower of sparks into the pan? It only takes one spark of course, but for some reason a shower is always faster than a couple. Experiment with how you install the flint. Some locks work better with the bevel of the flint up, some work better with the bevel down. Ideally, you want as much of the frizzen to be scraped by the flint as possible. Have good English flints, not a chunk of agate, and make sure it is sharp. Flints are easily knapped in the jaws of the cock by tapping lightly across the top of the edge with a brass rod or - as I usually do it - with the back of your patch knife.

A common problem with even the best of production locks is that the frizzen spring is too stiff. The only purpose of the spring is to hold the frizzen in place, and another term for it is feather spring. You can almost always improve things a little bit by taking a little meat off of the spring - with the added benefit of polishing the bearing surface in the process. A flintlock will work perfectly without the frizzen spring. You don’t want the flint to work any harder than it has to to open the frizzen and throw sparks into the pan.
The final common culprit is the frizzen itself. It can be too soft, and once again, this is something that can be a problem even with the best of locks. The rifle I use the most has a Chambers round faced lock, supposedly one of the best. However, after just a few hundred shots I had to send it back to be rehardened. ‘Twas a glitch that was easily remedied and should have fixed the problem for as long as I will be around. Your frizzen should be fairly pristine at this stage of the game. If it’s chewed up a lot it’s very likely at least part of the problem.

v

 

[Standing Bear]

Good info from Randy.  One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the size of the touch hole.  Mine is 1/16" but I am thinking of opening it up a tad.  Maybe all the way to 5/64".  Another thing is to cone the inside of the liner to shorten the flame travel before ignition.

With set triggers you can dry fire just the triggers.  With a single trigger rifle you can use a piece of wood in the jaws to dry fire.  An old fashioned wood clothes pin and provide a nice pair of "wood flints". 
TC