First Time Buying in Bulk

[HTR2133]

Hi Guys,

Really appreciate all the great info on this site. I have a CVA Optima Magnum. 1/28 inch twist. I assume this is synonymous with Optima V1 that I see on here quite a bit?

Anyway, I gave up on Powerbelts a couple years ago and decided to try the TC Cheap Shots. They are "ok" but not quite as accurate as I would like and very difficult to load in my gun. I really want to start shooting my muzzleloader quite a bit more this year and I'm tired of paying the pre-packaged prices. My goals: 1. 100 yard accuracy; I will never shoot further than that where I hunt, 2. Exit wounds and blood-trail optimization, 3. Value and availability to buy in bulk. With those goals in mind, I've done a lot of reading and here is what I'm leaning toward. Please let me know if there is a more economical way to reliably accomplish my goals.

I currently shoot T7 pellets but will switch to powder when I run out of the pellets. I use 2 50-grn equivalent pellets currently.

Thinking of going with Hornady XTP .452 in 250 grain or 300 grain w MMP sabots that load best. I prefer the 300 grain but I'm finding better deals on the 250 grain and mixed opinions. I would like to lighten my charge when I switch to powder and I've read the 250 grain might suit me better given a lighter charge and shorter ranges.

I appreciate any opinions or thoughts on this.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

The 250 grain bullet is an outstanding bullet! I just shot my 14th deer with one and performance was perfect.
This one is the only one I've ever recovered. It was a front quartering shot at 100 yards on a BIG doe. It wound up going diagonal through her chest and was found against a rib on the opposite side. Diameter. 704 and weight 238 grains.
Most time I get a 2 finger exit and a blood path a blind man could follow.
My load is 70 grains of 3f Swiss Holy Black and a Crush Rib sabot around the XTP.
Remember, when using sabots and any other powder than BH209, you MUST swab between shots. Especially with Triple 7. I use rubbing alcohol as it cleans well and dries quickly.
Chrono'd velocity from my 24 inch Firehawk is 1575 fps. The doe was shot with this load from my 28 inch TC Hawken. Didn't chrono that one yet.
Zeroed at 100, in down 8" at 150 yards and 24" at 200.
The non-magnum 300 grain .45 XTP has the same velocity parameters as the 250s, but of course you'll get more penetration. And recoil.
I've used 3 different calibers and 4 different weights of XTPs. All were superb performers. Match bullet to velocity ( Hornady publishes these parameters) and bullet weight to game, and I don't believe its possible to go wrong with an XTP.

 

[Underclocked]

Your rifle sounds more like the older version of the Optima rifle.. Bigger and heavier than the V1 or V2. A picture would be telling. In any case, Confederate Rifleman has you covered.

Hi Guys,

Really appreciate all the great info on this site. I have a CVA Optima Magnum. 1/28 inch twist. I assume this is synonymous with Optima V1 that I see on here quite a bit?

Anyway, I gave up on Powerbelts a couple years ago and decided to try the TC Cheap Shots. They are "ok" but not quite as accurate as I would like and very difficult to load in my gun. I really want to start shooting my muzzleloader quite a bit more this year and I'm tired of paying the pre-packaged prices. My goals: 1. 100 yard accuracy; I will never shoot further than that where I hunt, 2. Exit wounds and blood-trail optimization, 3. Value and availability to buy in bulk. With those goals in mind, I've done a lot of reading and here is what I'm leaning toward. Please let me know if there is a more economical way to reliably accomplish my goals.

I currently shoot T7 pellets but will switch to powder when I run out of the pellets. I use 2 50-grn equivalent pellets currently.

Thinking of going with Hornady XTP .452 in 250 grain or 300 grain w MMP sabots that load best. I prefer the 300 grain but I'm finding better deals on the 250 grain and mixed opinions. I would like to lighten my charge when I switch to powder and I've read the 250 grain might suit me better given a lighter charge and shorter ranges.

I appreciate any opinions or thoughts on this.

 

[GM54-120]

The problem atm is availability. Bulk pistol bullets are sold out all over the place. A great cheap bullet if you can find them are Speer DeepCurl, GoldDots or Uni-Cor. They retain weight better than the XTP yet expand about as easily. They are also usually cheaper IF you can find them. A box of 50 cost me about $12 locally for the 260gr 45cal Uni-Cor. Very nice cheap bullet that did great in Ron's jug tests.

ATM you might have a better chance finding 44cals in stock but i never got 44s to shoot as well or as easily working up a consistent load. Many have though. You just dont have as many sabot choices with 44cal but there are some great bullets.

 

[HTR2133]

The 250 grain bullet is an outstanding bullet! I just shot my 14th deer with one and performance was perfect.
This one is the only one I've ever recovered. It was a front quartering shot at 100 yards on a BIG doe. It wound up going diagonal through her chest and was found against a rib on the opposite side. Diameter. 704 and weight 238 grains.
Most time I get a 2 finger exit and a blood path a blind man could follow.
My load is 70 grains of 3f Swiss Holy Black and a Crush Rib sabot around the XTP.
Remember, when using sabots and any other powder than BH209, you MUST swab between shots. Especially with Triple 7. I use rubbing alcohol as it cleans well and dries quickly.
Chrono'd velocity from my 24 inch Firehawk is 1575 fps. The doe was shot with this load from my 28 inch TC Hawken. Didn't chrono that one yet.
Zeroed at 100, in down 8" at 150 yards and 24" at 200.
The non-magnum 300 grain .45 XTP has the same velocity parameters as the 250s, but of course you'll get more penetration. And recoil.
I've used 3 different calibers and 4 different weights of XTPs. All were superb performers. Match bullet to velocity ( Hornady publishes these parameters) and bullet weight to game, and I don't believe its possible to go wrong with an XTP.

Thank you for the excellent and informative response! That is impressive performance really cool pic! I'm feeling pretty good about the 250 grain XTP at this point and believe it or not, I actually found some for sale and in stock! I'm thinking of ordering a couple samples of the MMP Sabots to see which loads best in my gun. Any recommendation on sabot other than MMP?

 

[HTR2133]

The problem atm is availability. Bulk pistol bullets are sold out all over the place. A great cheap bullet if you can find them are Speer DeepCurl, GoldDots or Uni-Cor. They retain weight better than the XTP yet expand about as easily. They are also usually cheaper IF you can find them. A box of 50 cost me about $12 locally for the 260gr 45cal Uni-Cor. Very nice cheap bullet that did great in Ron's jug tests.

ATM you might have a better chance finding 44cals in stock but i never got 44s to shoot as well or as easily working up a consistent load. Many have though. You just dont have as many sabot choices with 44cal but there are some great bullets.

Thanks for the other bullet recommendations. I will see if I can find those; I did find some 250 Grain 45 Cal XTPs believe it or not!

 

[HTR2133]

Your rifle sounds more like the older version of the Optima rifle.. Bigger and heavier than the V1 or V2. A picture would be telling. In any case, Confederate Rifleman has you covered.

Trying to add some pics. I can't recall the year I purchased this gun but I know it was before 2010.

 

[HTR2133]

2004 per CVA Serial # look up. I also just realized they have a 35% off trade in discount for this gun! Might be time to upgrade after the season!

 

[WV Hunter]

I second the XTP or Speers. Excellent bullets price and performance. You will be fine with either I'm sure.

 

[MrTom]

2004 per CVA Serial # look up. I also just realized they have a 35% off trade in discount for this gun! Might be time to upgrade after the season!

If your check book says you can, I would. Nitride or stainless, both will clean up quickly and tool-less. Plugs are easily gotten to shoot the 209 powder are fairly inexpensive now and plugs are also available with vent liners for the V2 guns which will expand you options even further.

 

[Underclocked]

With 35% off, this would be a great deal OPTIMA V2 BLACK/SS .50 ISM - or this OPTIMA V2 BLACK/SS .50 OUTFIT or this one OPTIMA V2 BLACK/SS .50 FOS

The one you have is much heavier, not as well made, and the one similar that I had would not group anything inside a foot circle at 100 yards. That is an old original version of the Optima made before ownership changed hands. The links I gave you are for V2 models, the V1 model is not as old as yours and varies from the V2 mainly in the location of the action release lever. The current models are overall the best of the Optima models (V2).

I would not hesitate to make that trade.

 

[snapbang]

I still like using GT Bullets for $.16 each. With a s$.16 sabot they are cheap, and kill like lightning. See Ron's Bullet test.

 

[HTR2133]

With 35% off, this would be a great deal OPTIMA V2 BLACK/SS .50 ISM - or this OPTIMA V2 BLACK/SS .50 OUTFIT or this one OPTIMA V2 BLACK/SS .50 FOS

The one you have is much heavier, not as well made, and the one similar that I had would not group anything inside a foot circle at 100 yards. That is an old original version of the Optima made before ownership changed hands. The links I gave you are for V2 models, the V1 model is not as old as yours and varies from the V2 mainly in the location of the action release lever. The current models are overall the best of the Optima models (V2).

I would not hesitate to make that trade.

I agree! I got my dad an optima v2 ss from Cabelas for Christmas about 4 years ago. It made my gun look and feel like a dinosaur. I will say though my gun was very accurate w 2 50 grain T7 Pellets and Powerbelts. I've killed a lot of deer with it but the Powerbelts sucked for me on deer. Don't think in all the deer I killed I ever had a decent blood trail and probably only got an exit hole 2x in over a dozen deer. Hence my search for a low-cost, better performing short-range sabot load.

 

[HTR2133]

I still like using GT Bullets for $.16 each. With a s$.16 sabot they are cheap, and kill like lightning. See Ron's Bullet test.

That is even cheaper than the XTPs! I hope I can find some! Can't find anything right now and it is getting really annoying.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

I've had my best luck with Harvester sabots. Regular and crush ribs. Both my TCs need crush ribs for 250 and 300 grain bullets. 230s need regular Harvesters due to their shorter bearing surfaces compared to their heavier brethren. The 230s in crush ribs are just a tad too loose for best results. Your rifle will tell you what it likes.
In my experience, Harvesters do better with modest loads than MMPs. Harvesters have thinner skirts which flare better with lighter charges. I don't shoot more than 70 grains if 3f Swiss with any sabot or conical. This charges gives me accuracy, adequate power and 100 shot a pound!

 

[HTR2133]

I've had my best luck with Harvester sabots. Regular and crush ribs. Both my TCs need crush ribs for 250 and 300 grain bullets. 230s need regular Harvesters due to their shorter bearing surfaces compared to their heavier brethren. The 230s in crush ribs are just a tad too loose for best results. Your rifle will tell you what it likes.
In my experience, Harvesters do better with modest loads than MMPs. Harvesters have thinner skirts which flare better with lighter charges. I don't shoot more than 70 grains if 3f Swiss with any sabot or conical. This charges gives me accuracy, adequate power and 100 shot a pound!

That is exactly the load I'm hoping to settle in on. 70-80 grains of T7 powder is where I'd like to be in a sabot/bullet my gun will group well! Thanks for the recommendation on the harvester sabots!

 

[Confederate rifleman]

You're welcome. Good fortune to ya!

 

[sdporter]

Trying to add some pics. I can't recall the year I purchased this gun but I know it was before 2010.

View attachment 10806View attachment 10807

I bought the same rifle several years ago at Walmart during closeout for $149 it shoots the 190 grain T/C Shockwaves pretty well on top of 90 gns v BH209.
That load is good for deer out there quite a ways. I am shooting the original breech plug,and so far, it’s been fine. No misfires.
The three shots below the bull, were my first group, I dialed up and shot two more. They are the two with one in the bull and one just higher, and right on left to right. Target was at about 90 yards. The other holes are different rifles.

 

[HTR2133]

I bought the same rifle several years ago at Walmart during closeout for $149 it shoots the 190 grain T/C Shockwaves pretty well on top of 90 gns v BH209.
That load is good for deer out there quite a ways. I am shooting the original breech plug,and so far, it’s been fine. No misfires.
The three shots below the bull, were my first group, I dialed up and shot two more. They are the two with one in the bull and one just higher, and right on left to right. Target was at about 90 yards. The other holes are different rifles.

Pretty sweet groups for a $149 rifle. I can't recall what I paid for mine for certain, but I think it may have been $99 at Walmart after the season. I was so broke back then I couldn't have paid more than that It has served me very well!

I did quite a bit of searching today and I can get an Optima V2 Black/SS w scope mount for $269. Hard to beat that upgrade. With ML season opening in my area Nov. 7, I bet I can sell my current rig w a bunch of Powerbelts and cheap shot I don't want for $100+/-. I look at that as a significant upgrade for $169 or less!

 

[WV Hunter]

Pretty sweet groups for a $149 rifle. I can't recall what I paid for mine for certain, but I think it may have been $99 at Walmart after the season. I was so broke back then I couldn't have paid more than that It has served me very well!

I did quite a bit of searching today and I can get an Optima V2 Black/SS w scope mount for $269. Hard to beat that upgrade. With ML season opening in my area Nov. 7, I bet I can sell my current rig w a bunch of Powerbelts and cheap shot I don't want for $100+/-. I look at that as a significant upgrade for $169 or less!

Also, fwiw... Knight has a killer sale right now on SS Disc Extremes. $350