flash hole diameter in T/C nipples

[451whitworth]

Anyone know what the flash hole diameter is of a brand new factory T/C #11 stainless nipple? (Renegade/Hawken shorty style 1/4-28)

 

[Renegadehunter]

I want to say they are about .031". I know the Treso/ampco flash holes are .028" and they are smaller than the TC's. I think Idaholewis will know for sure what they are.

 

[Burkeboy]

I have the same question, I recently bought some replacement nipples for my renegade and high plains sporter but get misfires in the high plains when using them. I compared the exit hole on the nipples of the new and old and the originals have a bigger hole. So I was going to drill out the new ones but was wondering on diameter size
Thanka

 

[Idaholewis]

Hey guy’s, I don’t actually know the Diameter of a New TC Nipple? If it is a TC Hotshot, My Good Friend Idahoron told me those things were like .034, BIG. I don’t like the TC Nipples, or any Stainless nipple for that matter, i MUCH MUCH Prefer the Treso/Ampco Nipples, they outlast the Stainless 10 fold! Back when i was Shooting the Stainless RMC nipples i was Averaging 25-30 Shots and the Nipples were TOAST! Big heavy lead (400 Grains and Above) And heavy Powder Charges (80 Grains and above) Get REALLY REALLY Rough on Nipples!!! I have yet to Throw away a Treso nipple, these things are TRULY the energizer bunny of Nipples! Unless you spend 60 Bucks on a Platinum Lined Which i have done. These Treso Nipples are BY FAR My favorites, i have several 100 Shots a Piece on a few of these, and they are stil going STRONG!

A word of Caution, Be REALLY Careful when opening a nipple Flash Hole, i Personally would NOT get over .034, NO WAY would i go over that! There is a “Fine Line” Here! Your Hammer will start Going to Half cock from the back pressure (Blowback) And in more severe cases, Full cock. You can make a VERY Dangerous situation FAST by Drilling Nipple Flash Holes out. Believe me, There is a VERY GOOD reason they are Small from the Facory!!

 

[Idaholewis]

The Treso Ampco nipples have a tiny .028 Flash Hole, They set off Real Blackpowder IMMEDIATELY, and since that is all i use, it’s a perfect deal for me. I understand the Substitute Powders such as Pyrodex, and Triple Seven require a Hotter Spark to Reliably ignite, Just be CAREFUL and NOT open them to much, I personally would go .032-.033 and at .035-.036 i would be REPLACING them!! Like i said, there is a Fine line here, VERY Fine!

 

[Burkeboy]

Thanks Idaho lewis
I have not drilled any nipples, yet
I purchased 4 different nipples as replacement for my existing ones
I measured the ones currently on the guns and they were both .035, the new ones measured .030 and the last two were .027. I am shooting pyrodex and when using nipples with .030 and .027 I had complete misfires in the high plains sporter, did not try them in the renegade. A friend has some goex and I will see if that makes a difference.

 

[451whitworth]

The reason I was asking is an acquaintance dropped off a box of muzzleloader odds and ends that belonged to his father in law's. There were 4 of those short T/C style nipples in the box loose. When I looked through the flash holes they looked kinda big. With pin gauges they all measured .037"-.038" which seems a little large for a #11 nipple. I figured I might be able to use them on my T/C Hawken .36 Green Mnt. or my .54 Renegade. The only T/C nipple I have is in the .36 barrel and has been in there for God knows how long. I measured it and it was .038" also. PRB shooting doesn't really wear nipples out so I started wondering if they are all worn out or that's how large the flash hole size is when new. I have quite a few new nipples on hand and these are the measurements:
Lyman #11 .030"
Knight Red Hot #11(red colored) .035"
Rem 700ML #11 .031"
Uncle Mike's Hot Shot .037"
Blomquist percussion works #11 .031"
Blomquist percussion works musket .039"
Rick Weber platinum musket .039" (for Whitworth/Volunteer)
Rick Weber platinum #11 on musket thread .030" (for Whitworth/Volunteer)
It really wouldn't surprise me if T/C made their's with oversize flash holes because most people do shoot the harder to ignite substitute powders.

 

[Idaholewis]

Those .039’s Are HUGE! I finally found an Old post where Ron speaks of .035 on a New HotShot Nipple (not sure the Brand? TC, or U Mikes?) I have personally had hammers half cock at .033-.034 in these cases the nipple was tall, leaving a VERY short distance to half cock, and possibly a weak Main spring? I have had nothing but STELLAR results using the Treso/Ampco nipples, But i also use Swiss Real Blackpowder Exclusively in all of my Guns, ignition is INSTANT with the tiny .028 Flash Hole. Sub powders are something i have little experience with, I had good luck with Triple Seven 3F, And Horrible Luck With Pyrodex P, My nipple Flash Holes were in the .033 Range with Both.

I remember helping a guy on a Facebook Group way back, This Guy started a post titled “Lock Self Destructed” I believe he was shooting a TC Renegade? (Been a long time ago now, I can’t remember all of the details?) Anyway, this guy said that on his last outing his Lock busted after firing his first shot, He was Looking for a New Lock for his Rifle. I Immediately started Quizing him, i asked when he had last changed the Nipple? He said recently, i then asked him if he had “Opened/Drilled out” the Flash Hole? He answered YES that he did, to get better ignition, and that he had always done that. He had no idea what size he had drilled out to? He just figured Bigger was Better? I explained to him that this was PRECISELY why he had Broken his Lock (Tumbler I believe?) and that he was DARN LUCKY he didn’t get hurt, I explained to him that there was a GENUINE reason that Companies made the Flash Hole small like they do. I then told him to think closely about where his eye is at in regards to the Nipple, and Hammer when he is firing his Rifle? That Clicked the light bulb on He then understood the importance, and how lucky he was that he didn’t get Badly injured.

 

[Renegadehunter]

I recently bought a Treso nipple, I had been using replacement nipples for my TC Renegade bought from track of the wolf when needed. I haven't ever measured the flash hole diameter of the track of the wolf replacements, so can offer no comparison unfortunately. Like Lew, I found that I needed to replace the "normal" nipples more often than one would think and I shoot PRB way more than I do conicals. I would replace them after seeing my groups open up considerably, for me this always happens before I actually see them get so bad that the hammer gets knocked to half cock. Using either Goex or Scheutzen (2f and 3f), I've noticed no difference in ignition compared to the Treso. I've had a couple of shooting sessions now with the Treso, probably around 35 to 40 shots. Only two fail to fires and one delayed ignition, all of which I attributed to pushing fouling down into the fire channel from swabbing.

 

[Idaholewis]

I recently bought a Treso nipple, I had been using replacement nipples for my TC Renegade bought from track of the wolf when needed. I haven't ever measured the flash hole diameter of the track of the wolf replacements, so can offer no comparison unfortunately. Like Lew, I found that I needed to replace the "normal" nipples more often than one would think and I shoot PRB way more than I do conicals. I would replace them after seeing my groups open up considerably, for me this always happens before I actually see them get so bad that the hammer gets knocked to half cock. Using either Goex or Scheutzen (2f and 3f), I've noticed no difference in ignition compared to the Treso. I've had a couple of shooting sessions now with the Treso, probably around 35 to 40 shots. Only two fail to fires and one delayed ignition, all of which I attributed to pushing fouling down into the fire channel from swabbing.

Renegadehunter, i have had the Same fail to fire, delayed ignition you speak of a time or 2 as well, Certain rifles are worse than others, my 1:18 Twist is REALLY BAD for it!

As most know, i use Treso/Ampco nipples Exclusively in all of my Muzzleloaders.

Here is My method for consistent/reliable ignition- From my Shooting bench when i am shooting a Group, After i shoot, i Swab the Bore good, THEN I Point my Rifle Straight down at the Ground and Pop 1 Cap Straight through it, You would be AMAZED at the Crud that Trickles out on the Ground, this is coming from the Fire Channel/Patented Breech! Popping the Cap Straight through “Breaks that Junk Loose” I then turn my Gun up and Start the Loading process, after I Dump the powder charge in i “Tap Tap Tap” on the Wrist area of my Gun to get the Powder settled under the Nipple good, Seat my Wad, then send my bullet down. I understand i am Wasting/Burning 1 extra Cap, But i am PERFECTLY ok with doing that to insure i get “Immediate” ignition. So far i have YET to have a Hang/Delay Fire, Or Fail to fire when i do the Above process. I consider it “Nature of the Beast”

 

[edmehlig]

Lew’s method works for me every time! I pop two caps just to make sure there is no oil that may linger and contaminate the powder.

 

[Burkeboy]

At the range yesterday I did the same thing as Idaholewis stated, everything went perfect! Don't mind wasting a cap.

 

[Renegadehunter]

I recently turned my jag down slightly and that greatly improved the amount of F2F's I was getting. I do not normally pop a cap after swabbing since turning the jag down, but I'm sure that would help. Before turning the jag down it was a necessity to pop a cap or I got F2F's every other shot on days it was wet/raining.

 

[jem44357]

I covered my T/C Scout pistol to 209 primers with this. It now ignites pellets without hang fires. https://www.cabelas.com/product/Davide-Pedersoli-Primer-Nipple-Conversion-Kit/1608590.uts

 

[jem44357]

I covered my T/C Scout pistol to 209 primers with this. It now ignites pellets without hang fires. https://www.cabelas.com/product/Davide-Pedersoli-Primer-Nipple-Conversion-Kit/1608590.uts

Hmm covered? Should be converted!

 

[Idaholewis]

Hmm covered? Should be converted!

I am curios how you were able to make this conversion to a Scout? I have 3 Scouts, a 50 Cal Pistol, .50 Rifle, and .54 Rifle, The Nipple itself on the Scouts is not replaceable, They take their own Funky Style Breech Plug setup that has the nipple machined in to it, The only way you can replace the Scout Nipple is the Whole Breech Plug

Scout BP/Nipple, Old Style on bottom, New Vented Style on Top

 

[jem44357]

I am curios how you were able to make this conversion to a Scout? I have 3 Scouts, a 50 Cal Pistol, .50 Rifle, and .54 Rifle, The Nipple itself on the Scouts is not replaceable, They take their own Funky Style Breech Plug setup that has the nipple machined in to it, The only way you can replace the Scout Nipple is the Whole Breech Plug

Scout BP/Nipple, Old Style on bottom, New Vented Style on Top

Check out this thread https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/...209-conversion-pic-heavy.538777/#post-5518777

 

[Idaholewis]

Check out this thread https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/...209-conversion-pic-heavy.538777/#post-5518777

Cool!! I have always talked about having a Machinest, or somebody that really understands this sort of thing, Look in to one of these Scout Plugs and see about having it Drilled and tapped 1/4-28 so a guy could Replace just a Nipple and not this Whole Funky Breech plug Setup, I couldn’t see why it wouldn’t work? And seeing your conversion, no doubt the No 11 Nipple would work fine. To many irons in the fire here and i just haven’t pursued it. Thanks for posting it!

 

[451whitworth]

I'm bringing back this old thread because I have recently ordered some parts for a muzzleloader I'm making from Track of the Wolf. Since I was placing an order I added a variety of their nipples for my various rifles. I measured the flash holes and here's what i got:

stainless Lyman GPR: .027"
stainless T/C sidelock: .031"
stainless Whitworth/Volunteer musket: .029"
stainless Whitworth/Volunteer #11: .029"
carbon steel Whitworth/Volunteer musket: .029"
carbon steel Whitworth/Volunteer #11: .029"

The stainless nipples are made from 416 and hardened. Personally I feel the Lyman factory nipples are pretty soft and have huge .040" flash holes (at least the last 3 pack I checked). I have shot my .54 GPR Hunter 82 times (using Track's nipple) in the past month with Lyman 533476, 542622, and 548657 over 90-100 grains of Swiss 2F, OE 2F, and Goex red can 3Fg. So far there has been no real flash hole growth. I still can't fit the .028" pin gauge through the flash hole. I do find it interesting that the Whitworth/Volunteer musket nipples have the same flash hole size as the #11. Most musket nipple flash hole I've measured over the years are around .040" plus or minus a thousand.