Had a System 1 back when they were still in production. I used to shoot the heaviest 50 Cal TC maxi hunters out of it with Pyrodex RS. It shot OK but somewhere along the line I decided it needed to shoot .430" 300 grain Hornady XTPs. It shot OK. Then a few years went by and decided I needed to go traditional and got the first rifle Steve Zihn made by accident. Sold the System 1. Regret. Got a Savage m10 ML II because I need a scope. It never shot well except one load using PR duplex 195gr. and IMR SR4756. Sold it for a considerable profit. Decided that the most accurate muzzleloader I ever had was that System 1 so I recently got a new Black Diamond which is same with shorter barrel that's not interchangeable. Perfect. But now I want to shoot lead out of it and remember that the System 1 was a rear pain to load, it must have had a tight barrel which I hear is pandemic to T/C guns. Does anyone out there have any recommendations for a full size lead pill for it? I'm thinking that the Hydro-con would be a good place to start. I cast also so not opposed to getting a mould. Thinking either 777, BP or maybe even Black MZ if I can ever find some locally, I don't want to pay $30 shipping just to try it.
Full bore lead options Black Diamond
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I would try the Hornady Great Plains
scott30415
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I want to see where this goes. I also have a Black Diamond, I took the scope off and added some Williams iron sights. I am feeding it T\C 350 grain Maxi Hunters with wonder patches between the lead and Pyrodex RS. Hoping to get to the range and get a load worked up for this, if I can make it work to 50-75 yrds it will be my Hog rifle.
Lee makes a 360gr hollow base bullet mold. I have just cast up some but have not tried them yet. Now that the season is over i am going to work up something for them, using black mz. Will let you know what i find if i can get the weather to break.
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This was shot many years ago during hunting season. I had sighted in my Black Diamond XR with conicals and a few sabot loads. I had the rifle loaded with a 375 grain Buffalo Bullet SSB as I was hunting a food plot that morning. You can see the hit of the smaller hole at about 5 o'clock. That afternoon we were going to hunt thickets. So I wanted a conical bullet. So taking some 460 grain No Excuses, shooting sticks in my yards I shot this group with my SCOPED rifle. I had paced the distance and though it was 100 yards but after getting my range finder discovered it it was 88 yards actually. Off the sticks I took five shots with the conical bullets, swabbed the bore, reloaded and then hunted that afternoon. If you have a Black Diamond I would try that bullet. And I would try it with 65 grains of 2f 777. The reason I say that is the rifle is real accurate with that load.
So now I'm looking at a mold, specifically the NEI 500-445 #359f.
I slugged my barrel and I'm getting a bore diameter of .501" with .510 groove diameter. The as cast diameter should be around. 502-.503 from this mold with pure lead. Is this a good size for the bore or should I be sizing it to a different diameter?
I slugged my barrel and I'm getting a bore diameter of .501" with .510 groove diameter. The as cast diameter should be around. 502-.503 from this mold with pure lead. Is this a good size for the bore or should I be sizing it to a different diameter?
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RSVP2RIP said:
You might also consider Bull Shop Bullets - he has a tremendous selection and will size them to fit your rifle. Bullshop Dan has been building conicals for years...
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I just got this one. its available with hollow base pins and flat base to make 3 sizes in flat, or hollow base, so, 6 options, one mold.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=43_428&products_id=3308
Heres flat and hollow base of the biggest.
Or try looking through the Accurate mold catalog, they have pretty much anything. http://accuratemolds.com/catalog.php
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=43_428&products_id=3308
Heres flat and hollow base of the biggest.
Or try looking through the Accurate mold catalog, they have pretty much anything. http://accuratemolds.com/catalog.php
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In addition be aware if your Black Diamond has a QLA (false muzzle) they weren't meant for conical bullets, just saboted bullets. If memory serves me, the Black Diamonds came after the FireHawk and they all had the QLA installed at production.
You might get lucky and have a correctly installed QLA, just have to shoot conicals to be sure.
You might get lucky and have a correctly installed QLA, just have to shoot conicals to be sure.
Thanks for the replies but none of them really answed my question. I'm wanting to buy a mold not bullets, just wanted to know if a .502" bullet was appropriate for the bore dimensions. QLA not shooting conicls? Never heard that and it doesn't make sense to me that they would shot a sabot that would be opening up as soon as it left the muzzle, but still in the QLA area, accurately. It also flies in the face of my experience with the System 1. Maybe this is true and I've never heard about it, could you tell me more?
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That mold looks fairly good
.502 in a .501 bore might work just fine for you. If not a Lee .501 sizing die is cheap. https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ ... 1-diameter
If the QLA is cut off center to the bore it will hurt conical accuracy a great deal. It a know problem with some T/Cs
.502 in a .501 bore might work just fine for you. If not a Lee .501 sizing die is cheap. https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ ... 1-diameter
If the QLA is cut off center to the bore it will hurt conical accuracy a great deal. It a know problem with some T/Cs
lee molds are a good low $ starting point. try the 250 or 320 REAL. you can shim the mold if you need a bigger bullet. the as cast 250 REAL almost falls down the bore of my traditions lightning, but fits and shoots well when i use a .002 shim.
http://leeprecision.net/support/index.p ... d-diameter
http://leeprecision.net/support/index.p ... d-diameter
If the QLA is cut off center would that not also hurt sabot accuracy? I don't understand how a false muzzle that is not done well hurts one kind of projectile but not another. Does it have something to do with the way the rifling cuts deeper on one side than another when loading? Would that not cause a sabot to be started crooked also? I just don't understand the logic. It seems to me that a better cause would be a damaged crown that's not readily noticed because it's an inch down in the barrel, caused by an aluminum or steel ramrod/cleaning rod without a muzzle protector or some other way
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Sabot accuracy is not effected nearly as much by a off center QLA. The base of the sabot flairs out and minimizes the combustion gases from disturbing the bullet. Also by that time the bullet is starting to release slightly from the sabot.
You can achieve a similar solution by using a MMP Sub Base under the conical. Its more or less the base of a sabot without any petals. The sub base gives the conical just a tiny bit of time to clear most of the QLA before the gas starts to enter the QLA.
As i said this is a well known problem and well documented.
You can achieve a similar solution by using a MMP Sub Base under the conical. Its more or less the base of a sabot without any petals. The sub base gives the conical just a tiny bit of time to clear most of the QLA before the gas starts to enter the QLA.
As i said this is a well known problem and well documented.
