Going .50

[SuperKirby]

Last spring, I decided to have a barrel built to shoot smokeless out of of my Encore. I opted to have MGM build the barrel. I requested a 1-20 or 1-22 twist. The lady there explained that in .45 all they had were Shilen blanks in 1-14 twist, that it would take several extra months and add a couple hundred dollars to the price to go with a different blank. She further assured me that a 1-14 twist would be fine. Long story short, a 1-14 twist is too fast for sabots. An overly helpful gentleman here sized some bullets in an adjustable smooth die and sent them. They showed promise, but I don't have a die, and may have considered buying a die but I don't want to be locked in to only shooting sabotless.
These last couple weeks that I've really been trying to dial in a load I've maintained contact with a guy at MGM responsible for chambering and some of the finish work on the barrels. The first thing he told me was the lady that insisted I go with the 1-14 twist is no longer there, caused them a lot of problems and apologized for the problems I've had. He's asked me to try a few different things and call him back. Finally yesterday afternoon he asked me to send the barrel back to him and he's going to make a new one. He told me he was going to make some phone calls and call me back. About an hour later I got a call and he told me he can't get a slower twist .45 barrel for at least 8 weeks, then another week to get one made. This means by the time I got the barrel I would already be into muzzleloader season with no time to work up a load. And that's assuming there weren't any delays. He then told me if I wanted to go with a .50 he'd start on one today. He said that for whatever it was worth, he just finished up 2 .50 muzzleloader barrels for a local customer and went with him to sight them in. Using TC shockwaves and T7 pellets they were under 2" at 200 yards. Thought about it a little bit, and decided there wasn't any reason not too. I'd been thinking about a .50 barrel anyway. So I said sure, lets do that. Ok. He and I kept talking. By the time it was all said and done, he's making me a 24" stainless .50 barrel (I believe built off a Green Mountain blank. I need to ask again just to know.) He's also making and installing a matching stainless scope base, fluting it, and throwing in a breech plug at exactly no cost to me.

When it's all said and done, I'm thrilled with MGM's customer service. I can honestly say I think my dealings with him are probably the best I've ever been treated as a customer of any company. They've been polite, bent over backwards to make sure I'm happy, and when it was done thanked me. If anyone is thinking about a custom Encore barrel, I would highly recommend them.

 

[GM54-120]

Are you getting a 1-28 or a 1-24 50cal blank? Both are fine for sabots and conicals.

 

[Anonymous]

Being it's custom, I'm guessing he's getting what he requested..... 1:20 or 1:22.

 

[SuperKirby]

1-28, 24" long.
I briefly considered a 1-24 twist, but would have either had to go with a blued barrel or wait a bunch of weeks for Douglas to build a blank. When it came down to it I decided 1-28 is popular for a reason. There's been countless good groups shot with it, deer killed with it, etc. My initial train of thought was that if I'm getting a custom barrel, I should get a custom twist, but really I don't think there's a reason to. When it's all said and done it will be a better barrel than anything T/C builds anymore. And yeah, this way it will be .50 in a twist I know will shoot sabots and conicals well.

 

[flounder]

The 50 1 in 28 will work fine for hunting. Good Luck

 

[rwbaker]

Last spring, I decided to have a barrel built to shoot smokeless out of of my Encore. I opted to have MGM build the barrel. I requested a 1-20 or 1-22 twist. The lady there explained that in .45 all they had were Shilen blanks in 1-14 twist, that it would take several extra months and add a couple hundred dollars to the price to go with a different blank. She further assured me that a 1-14 twist would be fine. Long story short, a 1-14 twist is too fast for sabots. An overly helpful gentleman here sized some bullets in an adjustable smooth die and sent them. They showed promise, but I don't have a die, and may have considered buying a die but I don't want to be locked in to only shooting sabotless.
These last couple weeks that I've really been trying to dial in a load I've maintained contact with a guy at MGM responsible for chambering and some of the finish work on the barrels. The first thing he told me was the lady that insisted I go with the 1-14 twist is no longer there, caused them a lot of problems and apologized for the problems I've had. He's asked me to try a few different things and call him back. Finally yesterday afternoon he asked me to send the barrel back to him and he's going to make a new one. He told me he was going to make some phone calls and call me back. About an hour later I got a call and he told me he can't get a slower twist .45 barrel for at least 8 weeks, then another week to get one made. This means by the time I got the barrel I would already be into muzzleloader season with no time to work up a load. And that's assuming there weren't any delays. He then told me if I wanted to go with a .50 he'd start on one today. He said that for whatever it was worth, he just finished up 2 .50 muzzleloader barrels for a local customer and went with him to sight them in. Using TC shockwaves and T7 pellets they were under 2" at 200 yards. Thought about it a little bit, and decided there wasn't any reason not too. I'd been thinking about a .50 barrel anyway. So I said sure, lets do that. Ok. He and I kept talking. By the time it was all said and done, he's making me a 24" stainless .50 barrel (I believe built off a Green Mountain blank. I need to ask again just to know.) He's also making and installing a matching stainless scope base, fluting it, and throwing in a breech plug at exactly no cost to me.

When it's all said and done, I'm thrilled with MGM's customer service. I can honestly say I think my dealings with him are probably the best I've ever been treated as a customer of any company. They've been polite, bent over backwards to make sure I'm happy, and when it was done thanked me. If anyone is thinking about a custom Encore barrel, I would highly recommend them.

I had MGM make me a 44 barrel for my encore this spring it turned out great then had DR Tony make me a forend . http://www.tonysforendsandgrips.net/3.html Good luck hunting .

 

[Anonymous]

When it's all said and done it will be a better barrel than anything T/C builds anymore. And yeah, this way it will be .50 in a twist I know will shoot sabots and conicals well.

So your Encore was built by Smith & Wesson, not the old T/C?

 

[GM54-120]

Being it's custom, I'm guessing he's getting what he requested..... 1:20 or 1:22.

He requested a 45cal in those twists originally but got a 1-14. Very few people opt for a 1-22 or faster 50cal. It has no noticeable advantage over a 1-24 even with heavy bullets in sabots.

 

[WV Hunter]

The 50 1 in 28 will work fine for hunting. Good Luck

I agree, and that definitely is some fine customer service for sure! Glad they worked things out for you :yeah:

 

[Anonymous]

Being it's custom, I'm guessing he's getting what he requested..... 1:20 or 1:22.

He requested a 45cal in those twists originally but got a 1-14. Very few people opt for a 1-22 or faster 50cal. It has no noticeable advantage over a 1-24 even with heavy bullets in sabots.

Seems odd that he wanted a faster conical-like twist in the 45, but not in the custom 50-cal order.
Personally, I would have waited-out the new 45-barrel in fast twist, even if it meant not having it for this upcoming season. It appears the soon-arriving upcoming season changed his mind on his original barrel twist and caliber choice.

If the Encore was his only ML rifle and his old barrel was unusable, then I could understand the need to rush the process along a-bit and being forced into a different direction with caliber and twist. But otherwise.... no. Unless he's got piles of money and will order another barrel early next year, then what's the hurry here? Ordering custom is not something we do everyday. Most hunters can only afford to do this special order once in their lifetime and they usually get what their first intent was.

 

[flounder]

I am sure he has thought this over very carefully and then made his decision. I feel better supporting his decision than second guessing it after it has been made.
Besides the 45 caliber is more geared towards a faster twist than the 50. You would need an awful long bullet to shoot in a 50 with a twist faster than 1 in 24.
Good Luck Kirby and I am confident your custom barrel will be a shooter!

 

[03mossy]

Oh I know for a fact this decision was well thought out and discussed. It came down to the fact that he needed a good shooting barrel by the time the MN muzzleloader season rolls around and the 1-14" .45 barrel was not accurate enough to hunt with. Sitting the year out was not an option.

 

[SuperKirby]

Oh I know for a fact this decision was well thought out and discussed. It came down to the fact that he needed a good shooting barrel by the time the MN muzzleloader season rolls around and the 1-14" .45 barrel was not accurate enough to hunt with. Sitting the year out was not an option.

Yep.
Without going into a lot of detail and really long explanations, the best way I can explain it is a means of simplification. When I got the 1-14, I was really jumping into smokeless. Getting into all the different twist rates, bullet sizing for sabotless, measuring out loads, etc. just kind of took the fun out of it for me. Add to that the fact that the custom barrel I was super excited about was turning into quite the div... pain trying to find bullets that fit and all that, and I was just done. Going to a .50 opens up a bunch of bullet options without having to go sabotless for everything.
As for the twist, I thought about it a lot. When it comes down to it, I'm going to be shooting out of a 24" long barrel from an Encore. I could have had a 1-24 twist made and waited for that, but is that little bit of a faster twist really going to make a difference? I mean honestly I don't think unless you're on the extreme end of the spectrum with bullet weight, length and distance your shooting, there won't be a noticeable difference in any type of accuracy. Plain and simple, the 1-28" twist has been responsible for plenty of sub-moa groups over a whole bunch of years. I suspect this shooter will have a lot more of an impact on the group size than the twist rate when we're talking about this close of a twist rate.
As for .45 vs 50, if I would have really wanted to stick with smokeless, I would have stuck with .45. But I don't. I suspect if I really wanted to, I could throw my modified for smokeless breech plug in and still run light smokeless loads. But I don't really want to at this time so I'm not worried about it.
AND... when it comes down to it, compared to say, Bullberry or something, MGM isn't really much more expensive than going with a T/C factory barrel, so in a few years if I want to go that route I'll save my dimes and order another .45.
But like I said, right now I don't wanna. I wanna shoot BH209 in a .50.

 

[Anonymous]

So there was no 1:20 option for the 45, had you decided to wait? All that was available was 1:24 for the sabotless options?
I understand backing off the 1:14 twist. That I'm sure didn't need a ton of persuasion to recant on.

 

[Dutch]

Kirby,

I think you are going to love your new barrel. Congrats!

 

[SuperKirby]

So there was no 1:20 option for the 45, had you decided to wait? All that was available was 1:24 for the sabotless options?
I understand backing off the 1:14 twist. That I'm sure didn't need a ton of persuasion to recant on.

It was a pissibility to go with a .45 blank from MacGowen in 1-22 twist. It would have guaranteed I missed hunting this year. And it just wasnt what i really wanted, so i didn't get it.

 

[GM54-120]

So there was no 1:20 option for the 45, had you decided to wait? All that was available was 1:24 for the sabotless options?
I understand backing off the 1:14 twist. That I'm sure didn't need a ton of persuasion to recant on.

I think you are confused. There is no 45cal 1-24 twist barrel option except for Brux unless you want to buy a custom 1-24 button on top of the barrel cost. I dont think GM offers that option at any price. Pacnor does though. He could get a blued 50cal in 1-24 if he wanted to wait or a SS 50cal 1-28 right away.

I dont think Kirby is interested in sabotless except maybe conicals regardless of caliber.

 

[GM54-120]

So there was no 1:20 option for the 45, had you decided to wait? All that was available was 1:24 for the sabotless options?
I understand backing off the 1:14 twist. That I'm sure didn't need a ton of persuasion to recant on.

It was a pissibility to go with a .45 blank from MacGowen in 1-22 twist. It would have guaranteed I missed hunting this year. And it just wasnt what i really wanted, so i didn't get it.

Or for around $250 you could have bought a Bergara Encore 50cal SS 1-28 right now too.
http://www.bergarausa.com/Store-View.php?id=509

 

[bestill]

Glad mgm is taking care of you. Its a shame you didn't get to sabotless45 1-20 you wanted sure is a great muzzleloader option to have no sabots. But maybe someday it could become a reality. Once i went sabotless im forever changed

 

[SuperKirby]

Gentleman, it's important to note a couple things... More than anything else, I started this thread as a plug for MGM's incredible customer service.

I understand there's barrels, companies, twist rates, etc. out there that could have been "better" choices. What it comes down to is, I had a barrel made a year ago, had some interests with the twist rate, and rather than MGM saying "Hey, you ordered this barrel, you ultimately signed off on the build specs of this barrel, so you're stuck with it" they're saying "You shouldn't have been talked into it, lets fix it and make sure you're happy. We'll throw in a few extras you didn't order in the first place." That to me is notable.

I could have gone a different route, I could have skipped this hunting season and gotten a different twist and caliber. But I'm good with this. I'm getting what I want. If what I want changes again down the road, I'll order another barrel when I can afford to.