got to ask

[white eagle]

Are most modern muzzleloaders (50 cal.) of the inline variety rated for 150 grs. of black?
And can they all take Blackhorn 209,given the correct breech plug of course?

 

[MrTom]

I don't know why but 150 by volume seems to be the max on many of these guns. Do they all handle that charge? I have no idea why though. With Blackhorn the max load in any gun rated at 150 grains by volume with is 120 grains by volume.... about 84 by weight. My guess is that most people are going to realize the best potential in any of the 150 grain guns somewhere between 90 and 110 grains by volume using either T7 granular or BH209.

For a while everyone and their brothers bought guns that boasted MAGNUM capability with the 150 grain loads and found out that they were just getting beat up and searching for accuracy when they maxxed the guns out.

Bolt and break barrel actions can handle BH209, as a rule. There may be exceptions though. Some of the Knights and Whites have slam fire bolts and BH is probably less than a good idea in those guns.

Unless CXVA has changed something with their plugs for Optima and Wolf guns, you'll want to order a Blackhorn specific plug for those guns. There are a mess of vent liner plug options for most guns around today.

 

[earlwb]

Although the guns can handle 150 grain charges, it does you no good as much of it gets blown out of the barrel and is wasted. Heck even 120 grains winds up with a lot blown out of the barrel and wasted too. Everyone wants the shorter barrel guns nowadays. You would probably have to have a 40 inch barrel to be able to use 150 grain charges. But the recoil is going to be hard on you nontheless.

 

[Confederate rifleman]

My 70 grain charges of Holy Black means 100 shots per pound. And ( very) dead critters.
BH209's manufacturer clearly states the required rifle types. Closed breech, ie: (some) bolt actions, drop blocks ( omegas and similar) and break opens.
Some of these designs will need a special plug, but open breech/ striker fired types are asking for misfires and trouble.
Cayuga, r.i.p Dave, once tried BH209 in a Black Diamond and had to have a chunk of 209 primer removed from his forehead.
If one wants to used BH209, it's a far better idea to buy a rifle suited to it.
Good fortune to ya!

 

[snapbang]

I agree with the above. Very little to be gained from using magnum loads. Accuracy first.

 

[LAUDY1962]

I'm breaking 8 inch ceramic tiles at 235 yrd (lazer ranged) with 80 grns V SWBP and a xtp 240 bullet. CVA MR-X 45 cal. I am Sub MOA at 100 yrds. It is all what you practice with and shoot. with. I firmly believe this whole long range shooting is fun but don't hear much on game being taken at those extreme ranges. In the Smokeless group upon reading, they are really reaching out to extreme ranges but that is whole other topic. IMHO I believe that 200yrds is the sweet spot for most of the MZL with the charges discussed in the threads here on the forum for white tail harvesting. But nothing can be substituted for for experience and time on the range.. I am and paper puncher so I don't have the answer to your question. I only have what I have shot and what I can hit at the ranges discussed. As for the 150 grn charges, I have shot that 150 grns out of my Optima V2 in pellet form and really can not say it improved accuracy over the 100 grn charges. The recoil was obnoxious but I really feel I was wasting powder. Stay safe and shoot often.

 

[white eagle]

Don't get me wrong I am not promoting using max charges by any means
I merely noted that most manufacture's push 150 gr max loads as the upper limit
I am all about accuracy and care not for using the max charge
I have tip toed up to the max load with my Peregrine and accuracy was not bad I recall rite around a 1" at 100 (I would have to look again to be sure) but like most of you I don't like getting pushed around that much and I found a more favorable sweet spot lower down the powder column
Never used the max load with my Hawken settled in at 90 gr black
I was just curious because I was thinking of buying another ML and there was no listing as to the max load for it
thanks for all your replies and wisdom

 

[earlwb]

I think that they started playing it safe and are showing much lower max charges than in the past. Some people just have to do the max no matter what. Some of those people will even overdo it too. If some is enough then more is better kind of mentality.

 

[Pierre]

Although the guns can handle 150 grain charges, it does you no good as much of it gets blown out of the barrel and is wasted. Heck even 120 grains winds up with a lot blown out of the barrel and wasted too. Everyone wants the shorter barrel guns nowadays. You would probably have to have a 40 inch barrel to be able to use 150 grain charges. But the recoil is going to be hard on you nontheless.

If you have a big flame coming out of the muzzle you are wasting powder...big flame means too much powder. You want to have just a little flash from the muzzle...no flash means not enough powder...I have 2 50 cals & 2 45 cal all take different powder charges for accuracy & amount of flame. I only use patched balls & have traditional sidesaddles...

 

[ElDiablo]

I’ve personally tested loads up to 115 gr by weight of BH209 in a 22” barrel (designed for high pressure loads). Velocity was still increasing even at that charge weight. So, I think there are a lot of misconceptions out there about the max charge that can physically be burned. Pressure/safety is another question, of course.

Frankly, I couldn’t care less about “wasting” powder. What I am looking for is a combination of precision and velocity in my loads.

The only concern for me with excess powder is any unburned powder granules continuing to impact the base of the bullet after it leaves the muzzle (when it is very susceptible to destabilizing forces) causing greater dispersion. This has been well established in modern firearms.

 

[white eagle]

I watched the chrono as I went up in powder charge and my velocity kept climbing when the velocity drops with the heavier charge is when you are wasting powder

 

[Pierre]

I’ve personally tested loads up to 115 gr by weight of BH209 in a 22” barrel (designed for high pressure loads). Velocity was still increasing even at that charge weight. So, I think there are a lot of misconceptions out there about the max charge that can physically be burned. Pressure/safety is another question, of course.

Frankly, I couldn’t care less about “wasting” powder. What I am looking for is a combination of precision and velocity in my loads.

The only concern for me with excess powder is any unburned powder granules continuing to impact the base of the bullet after it leaves the muzzle (when it is very susceptible to destabilizing forces) causing greater dispersion. This has been well established in modern firearms.

All sounds good until you shoot in the dark & get blinded due to the muzzle flash...

 

[MrTom]

I enjoy shooting and I am not recoil intolerant. However, there does come a point where really heavy loads just take the fun out of the shooting. I don't distance shoot nor do I have anything to prove to anyone other than me beyond 100 yards or so that I consider my hunting range, so I keep my loads where they're still fun and they kill deer super well. Sure, I can load'm until they hurt but I'll leave that for those that seem to have something to prove.

 

[ElDiablo]

I don’t do a lot of shooting at night…..But, I can attest to the fact that 115 grW of BH209 is not fun to shoot without a brake!

 

[eekjellander]

All sounds good until you shoot in the dark & get blinded due to the muzzle flash...

If that's a problem quit earlier as your likely after shooting time !! Blinded by muzzle flash ? sounds like a personal problem /just sayin Ed

 

[Pierre]

If that's a problem quit earlier as your likely after shooting time !! Blinded by muzzle flash ? sounds like a personal problem /just sayin Ed

No, I'm a law enforcement firearms instructor & a retired United States Marine, don't want to confuse you...just made a comment about muzzle flashes as in ported guns...I know you cannot hunt after dark. May not be applicable to a ML site but most people on this site most likely carry for self defense.

 

[eekjellander]

No, I'm a law enforcement firearms instructor & a retired United States Marine, don't want to confuse you...just made a comment about muzzle flashes as in ported guns...I know you cannot hunt after dark. May not be applicable to a ML site but most people on this site most likely carry for self defense.

Your right it doesn't , I'm sure there's a place somewhere and I carry 24/7 and trust me if there others (likely) advice on muzzle flash ain't called for here or elsewhere !/Ed

 

[LAUDY1962]

I will attest to calling coyotes at night. the muzzle flash is spectacular. Hahaha

 

[Pierre]

Your right it doesn't , I'm sure there's a place somewhere and I carry 24/7 and trust me if there others (likely) advice on muzzle flash ain't called for here or elsewhere !/Ed

Well you are entitled to your opinion...

 

[Pierre]

I will attest to calling coyotes at night. the muzzle flash is spectacular. Hahaha

Thanks for the support...