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anyone on here build an H&R 45-70 into a smokeless? Slufoot did a lot of them - thinking about doing mine. Thanks for any info
Handi rifle SML
- Thread starter Patrick McChristy
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Center Punch USA is also used quite a bit for those conversions . Hollis is the owner/gunsmiths name . I know he will make custom bp for guys too . This is who Luke ASG would refer you to and used i believe . He charges about $200 and supplies a plug using 209's . They say his work is really good . Iowa guy , eastern part . Dont know what that includes for a flash hole , bushing or ventliner ?? Get the bushing plug if you can cuz it will last alot longer .
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I think slufoot is on dougs message boards . If not does anybody know how to get ahold of him ???
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Slufoot posted a while back on Doug’s that he wasn’t doing conversions anymore, but maybe that has changed recently. Those Ultra Hunters in stainless with the thumbhole stock sure are sharp looking rifles. You thinking 209 or LRMP?
Could you explain that choice to Patrick ?? Both of us are pretty green on this smokeless stuff . Thanks .
Do you know of anyone else thats doing these conversions ???
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Not sure what I’m doing at this point - just looking for info
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I’m away from my laptop so I posted the link below which shows a Large Rifle Magnum Primer in a 45-70 sized brass module. I reload for 45-70 so priming and de-priming the module is easy. I had Bestill convert my two Apex’s using an ArrowHead Sporting Goods Gen2 breech plug and ASG LRMP primer modules. The ASG Gen2 plug has a very short flame path which should ignite single powder loads in very cold temps with no problems.
I have experienced a no fire in 5*F temps with my smokeless muzzleloader using a 209 primer, but to be fair, that was with a Winchester 209 primer, a savage breech plug, 70 grains IMR4198, and a 250 grain bullet, which is not the greatest combo. I was testing that rifle to see if it would go off if cold temps and it didn’t so I have since changed a few things with my smokeless 209 muzzleloaders. I now use a duplex load of N110 and IMR4198, Federal 209 primers, 285 grain bullets, and a rubber o-ring in the primer pocket for a tight seal.
Accuracy wise, I don’t see a difference between 209 primers or LRMP’s. You gain some velocity with the LRMP and get good cold weather ignition with the right breech plug, but a good sealing 209 breech plug will also work good with the right load combo.
In the link, I am shooting a duplex load with the LRMP but only because that load shot very well. This year, I tested single powder loads and was happy with the results so no duplex with the LRMP but I still duplex with my 209 smokeless rifles.
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/cva-apex-45-sml-with-bcb-285-grain-bullet.32115/
I have experienced a no fire in 5*F temps with my smokeless muzzleloader using a 209 primer, but to be fair, that was with a Winchester 209 primer, a savage breech plug, 70 grains IMR4198, and a 250 grain bullet, which is not the greatest combo. I was testing that rifle to see if it would go off if cold temps and it didn’t so I have since changed a few things with my smokeless 209 muzzleloaders. I now use a duplex load of N110 and IMR4198, Federal 209 primers, 285 grain bullets, and a rubber o-ring in the primer pocket for a tight seal.
Accuracy wise, I don’t see a difference between 209 primers or LRMP’s. You gain some velocity with the LRMP and get good cold weather ignition with the right breech plug, but a good sealing 209 breech plug will also work good with the right load combo.
In the link, I am shooting a duplex load with the LRMP but only because that load shot very well. This year, I tested single powder loads and was happy with the results so no duplex with the LRMP but I still duplex with my 209 smokeless rifles.
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/cva-apex-45-sml-with-bcb-285-grain-bullet.32115/
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I’m trying to decide what I want to do - sounds like $200+ to get it done. I might try to do it myself with a savage smokeless plug
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I wouldn't use a savage plug, there are much better options. Maybe that breech plug can be made to work good but I didn't like it, the front sealing area flame cut too easy. Rear sealing plug is the way to go IMO.
And so is a bushing plug .
Sounds like that 209 plug could use a re--design . GM54--120's nula plug is a 209 and doesnt require duplexing for cold weather . Just sayin..... Thats for your 700 correct ??
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The NULA plug works because the way it seals the primer. That would be hard to achieve in break action. An ASG or Hankins 209 plug would be a better option. The NULA plug was never intended to be used sabotless either. Melvin was strongly against sabotless 45 use. Peak pressure can easily go up by over 20% sabotless.
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If you’re closer to TN, you may want to check out Shultz Precision rifles. JR Shultz is the owner and is pretty OCD on his work. Pretty sure he will install whatever system you choose but normally suggests Hankins Plug and module system. He has a FB and web page, if you want to look him up. He’s done some work for me in the past and does great work at reasonable prices.
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Yes for the 700ML but not with the savage plug, I sold that barrel and breech plug to someone who had another rifle with the same system.
I now use an ASG breech plug which is still a little long for my likes but may not require my duplex load. I may try the single powder cold weather test this year if the weather cooperates and if I have time.
I hope the new system works !!!!
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Still kicking around this conversion &!doing the machining myself. Thinking about an ASG rear sealing bushing plug & making the LRMP modules. When you purchase the plug will he let you know how to size the rifle to fit correctly? Also what is a good 200-250 bullet that works well in this platform? This is a 24” barrel. Thanks!
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Center Punch USA Hollis Webber fixed me up. Plug & LRMP module on the way, he went out of his way to talk to me about it in great detail. I wish I would of called him sooner. Can't wait to get the Handi up & going!
I use a DI plug in my Apex and am very happy with it. I know it is not every ones cup of tea. I have shot sabotless with it the bullet size was too small and actually fell down the barrel I seated it hard and it ignited the powder. I have also used it in my Sav/Brux rifle with same results never a ftf.
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