How about the offspring of two great conicals?

[Dwayne]

You know. . .

I have (for years now) would love to see a design of a bullet/conical change. . .
Lets look at the Miniball. . .

Beautiful conical. . . Hollow base (should be a little more hollow and thinner on edges. . .but. . .still. . .the weight is around 380 grains in 50 cal.
It fits down the barrel a little bit too easy. . . .as if very little slop is there. But that was the design of the conical in the first place!!!
A Conical that slides easily down the barrel for a quick second shot, with a skit that would expand against the edges of the grooves when shot, giving it more accuracy.

Lets look at the REAL Concial. . .(250/320).

Beautiful conical. . .FLAT base. . .the first rim slides fairly easy into the barrel, and the next rid is tighter, and the last rim is VERY tight, giving a conical that automatically loads
into the barrel STRAIGHT, and when shot the compression will cause the first ridges to go tighter against barrel, increasing accuracy. (Whether this was its purpose is another story, but when I think about it, that compression will expand that conical a little bit no matter what. . .
The other nifty thing about the REAL, is the rings clean the barrel every time you load. (It actually does!). I never have to swab between shots. NEVER! And we are talking about shooting ALL day with black powder.

So. . .what is wrong with combining these two conicals into one?

Imagine a conical that has the same ring setup as a REAL, nice tight fit on top with smaller ridges for perfect aligning. Imagine that same conical that has a hollow base, so when fired, the hollow base expands against the rifling of the gun, creating a nice TIGHT fit against the rifling. And (if you want) add a hollow point to boot.

What would you have?
A conical that:

1. Excellent loading into the barrel with last rim assuring tight fit.
2. Hollow base, so the conical will expand against the rifling when fired.
3. Ridges that clean the barrel when loading.
4. A hollow point for maximum expansion.

Just some thought. . .

 

[cayuga]

That is one reason I like the slip fit conicals my White Rifles shoot. I don't need to swab, and can load as fast as I want.

As for the REAL conical bullets.. I have cast them for many years. And shot a couple deer with them. My friend that shoots a .54 T/C Hawkens.. that all he will shoot is my 300 grain REAL. He swears it puts them down on the spot. BUT he does a lot of neck shooting. And we know neck shots are usually (if done right) drop them in their tracks shots.

I shot a doe years back with a REAL and the damage that little conical did was amazing. They are a excellent projectile.

 

[Dwayne]

It seems a lot of people do not like the powerbelts. . .
Personally, my friend has had extraordinary luck with them. . .huge holes, large blood trails (if they run), and 100 percent success. ..

the powerbelt is not really made to go through the deer. the huge hollow point, is made to enforce the full kinetic energy onto the deer. I was trying to remember the number of times a powerbelt has gone all the way through the deer, and I would say about 1/2 the time (with my lapse of memory here )

But I expect that, and so does my friend. He shoots the 245 grain PB.

My REALS do a great job punching through bone, and if (like you said) hit in the neck, they drop like a rock. I would still like to have a hollow back, to where pass through is not imminent, but full concussion of the Kinetic energy is brought forth upon the target.

I love the REAL's, and that is my main conical. I have tried the miniballs, but they are not near as accurate, but I do like the principal behind them. REAL's have got to be casted with pure lead.. (not wheel weights). Wheel weights I have found is way too hard, making it extremely difficult to push a REAL down the front of the Barrel.

Just been thinking about it for a long long time. . .

 

[Muley Hunter]

You know. . .

I have (for years now) would love to see a design of a bullet/conical change. . .
Lets look at the Miniball. . .

Beautiful conical. . . Hollow base (should be a little more hollow and thinner on edges. . .but. . .still. . .the weight is around 380 grains in 50 cal.
It fits down the barrel a little bit too easy. . . .as if very little slop is there. But that was the design of the conical in the first place!!!
A Conical that slides easily down the barrel for a quick second shot, with a skit that would expand against the edges of the grooves when shot, giving it more accuracy.

Lets look at the REAL Concial. . .(250/320).

Beautiful conical. . .FLAT base. . .the first rim slides fairly easy into the barrel, and the next rid is tighter, and the last rim is VERY tight, giving a conical that automatically loads
into the barrel STRAIGHT, and when shot the compression will cause the first ridges to go tighter against barrel, increasing accuracy. (Whether this was its purpose is another story, but when I think about it, that compression will expand that conical a little bit no matter what. . .
The other nifty thing about the REAL, is the rings clean the barrel every time you load. (It actually does!). I never have to swab between shots. NEVER! And we are talking about shooting ALL day with black powder.

So. . .what is wrong with combining these two conicals into one?

Imagine a conical that has the same ring setup as a REAL, nice tight fit on top with smaller ridges for perfect aligning. Imagine that same conical that has a hollow base, so when fired, the hollow base expands against the rifling of the gun, creating a nice TIGHT fit against the rifling. And (if you want) add a hollow point to boot.

What would you have?
A conical that:

1. Excellent loading into the barrel with last rim assuring tight fit.
2. Hollow base, so the conical will expand against the rifling when fired.
3. Ridges that clean the barrel when loading.
4. A hollow point for maximum expansion.

Just some thought. . .

You're describing the Hornady Great Plains bullet.

Great Plains bullets are made especially for hunting. They feature an innovative, three diameter bearing surface that makes them easy to load, yet assures a good tight fit in the bore. The base diameter which is smaller than the bore of the rifle makes the bullet easy to start; the middle diameter is slightly larger and engages the rifling; the top diameter fits tightly and embeds in the grooves of the rifling. Upon firing, the thin skirt of the hollow base expands to engage the rifling and seal the bore. This engineered design makes the Great Plains bullet more accurate in most styles of muzzleloaders, Pre lubed for easy loading and cleaning. Per 20. Available: .50, .54.

 

[Dwayne]

Thank you very much Muley!!!

I appreciate your info. . .I have heard of the great plains, but never purchased one, or even looked at them.

There are quite a few conicals out there that I just ignore. . .not because they are poor, but just because there are so many out there, and one can spend lots of time and money playing with just conicals.

I found the REAL concials extremely nice, easy to cast, and accurate in my gun. I also tried the Powerbelts, and they are accurate. . .but for the amount of shooting I do, the price of conicals would make a day of shooting very expenisve. . .

I will do a little more research on these concials. . .thanks a million for the heads-up!
If they make a casting mould, that would be fantastic. . .If not. . .oh well. .


Dwayne

 

[Muley Hunter]

Compared to Powerbelts they almost give them away.

A bit less than $.50 ea.

 

[sabotloader]

Dwayne

Do you have any interest in Bull Shop or No Excuse conicals? I am sure I do not shoot as many concals as you might but I have found both the Bull Shop and No Excuse 'slip fit' conical to be excellent shooter with outstanding accuracy...

Picture of part of the Bull Shop variety of bullets...





These bullets do not have a cupped base at all they are flat bottom - the way they are designed and built no need for the that type of base.

 

[Dwayne]

Hello Sabotloader,

Thank you very much for the reply. ..

Guess what. . .I just got through ordering and receiving 100 rounds of the "No Excuse" conicals. I ordered the 490 grain conicals. They had two kinds, a 460? and a 490? (or close to that). I figured there really was not that much difference between the two conicals. . .less than 10 percent weight difference, so I went with the heavier ones.

I received them Wednesday of this past week, and will try them out as soon as I can.

I will be using a 1:48 twist barrel flintlock. . .

I ordered them for the reason of possible Elk hunting in the next couple of years. I have never been Elk hunting, but I know that I would like some impact downrange, and that takes a little lead. I do not think my 320 grain REAL's will do as good job, as something weighing in the 400+ range.

So, as much as I would *LOVE* to cast my own conical, I can't seem to find one that has some weight, yet has the characteristics that I want. I did see one that Lyman had for a mould. . .Looked really nice for a 50 cal conical. I may end up purchasing that. I think it was 512 diameter, (I forgot the weight, but guessing around 530 grains).

I am hoping and praying that these No Excuses will not tumble out of my barrel with that twist of 1:48, as well as be accurate enough to use for hunting.

What is your opinion? You know much more about these No excuses than I.

I thought about 85 grains of 2F powder behind them.

Dwayne

edit:
I went back and searched for what I was talking about:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/177294 ... -flat-nose

 

[sabotloader]

Hello Sabotloader,

Thank you very much for the reply. ..

Guess what. . .I just got through ordering and receiving 100 rounds of the "No Excuse" conicals. I ordered the 490 grain conicals. They had two kinds, a 460? and a 490? (or close to that). I figured there really was not that much difference between the two conicals. . .less than 10 percent weight difference, so I went with the heavier ones.

I received them Wednesday of this past week, and will try them out as soon as I can.

I will be using a 1:48 twist barrel flintlock. . .

That might be a problem... they may be to long especially the 490's for a 1-48 twist - they might not stabilize...

I ordered them for the reason of possible Elk hunting in the next couple of years. I have never been Elk hunting, but I know that I would like some impact downrange, and that takes a little led. I do not think my 320 grain REAL's will do as good job, as something weighing in the 400+ range.

I think both either the shorter 400 or the 445 Bull Shops should/might stabilize in a 1-48 and either of them would handle an elk at FLock ranges.

So, as much as I would *LOVE* to cast my own conical, I can't seem to find one that has some weight, yet has the characteristics that I want. I did see one that Lyman had for a mould. . .Looked really nice for a 50 cal conical. I may end up purchasing that. I think it was 512 diameter, (I forgot the weight, but guessing around 530 grains).

I am hoping and praying that these No Excuses will not tumble out of my barrel with that twist of 1:48, as well as be accurate enough to use for hunting.

What is your opinion? You know much more about these No excuses than I.

I thought about 85 grains of 2F powder behind them.

Dwayne

85 gr. would be a pretty stout load for those - I shoot the 460 Bull Shops with 90 grains, but that is in a Green Mountain LRH - fast twist barrel...

mike