Illinois Crunch time-----Hangfire

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tndeer

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Well, after hunting both firearm seasons and the ML season in illinois, it came down to the last hour and half of the season for me. Saturday afternoon, i finally saw a shooter buck on our lease. It has been tough in our area due to the flood and blue tongue. I was hunting on the ground next to some thick cover when a nice buck appeared in front of me. It caught me by surprise, and had to make a snap judgement whether to shoot. I was looking for a bruiser, but after my lack of seeing bucks, I made a quick decision to shoot him. His anlers were way past his ear tips, 18-20 inch spread, not sure of have many total points. Good length. He saw me about the same time i saw him. I raised the Knight 50 cal elite and placed it on my monopd. I was sitting on a few logs, leaning against a small tree. His vitals were covering by some weeds, so as he looked at me, i made the decision to neck shot him. At the pull of the trigger, my worst nightmare occurred. A hangfire----just a slit second delay--just enought to make me flinch and pull the shot. The deer ran off unscathed, waying his tail at me. I checked for blood sign and looked hard for the deer, but i knew in my heart , I had blown a 45 yd chip shot. I was shooting Blackhorn 209 with
Winchester 209 primers. I have read where several people have had trouble with Winchester and BH209. I have shot 5 bottles of powder, and had 4 hangfires. Most of them i attributed to carbon build up in the nipple. I am using the FPJ breech plug. When crunch time came, me and the primer blew it. It was a long sorrowful drive back to TN. There are a lot of what ifs that ran through my mind. Should I have waited for a better broadside shot. Should I have concentrated on follow through with the shot, thus maybe not flinching so bad on the hangfire. I remember one hangfire i encountered, shooting at an apple at 75 yds. Busted it in spite of the hangfire. But an apple is not a deer. Deer equals adrenaline. What if i had taken heed of other people's troubles with Winchester primers and got me some Federals or CCI mag. I am grateful it was a clean miss. A wounded deer is a horrible situation---I'm not into feeding the coyotes. I really like my Elite and my LRH, but I'm going to do some soul searching. Should i change to TC, or should i try the Federal or CCI primers. I will have trouble in the future trusting my Knight unless I can find an absolute cure ( if there is such an animal). I really hate to abandon BH but i need confidence in my setup. I owe the deer that much, not to mention a lot of time and expense on my part. Question for you TC owners that shoot BH. Have you had 100% success in shooting this powder and what primers do you use. There were 2 TC reps in camp with me, they were shooting 777 out of their Endeavors. They said they could fix me up with one. After the hangfire, i reloaded, then discharged the gun at the end of the day. Quess what, instant ignition. Today, i fired 3 more rounds---instant igntion. The only thing i know, God is in control of my life and that deer!!! It wasn't his time. If God allows me, I will be back next year looking for that bad boy. Any suggestions on what route i should take would be highly appreciated. As a side bar, I met Ron Shaw in Lawrenceville. A super guy. Look forward to seeing him next year. Ron, hope you get that big boy you were telling me about. Don't let your wife get him--LOL.
 
sorry to hear about that. Switch over to a flintlock and then the miss wont hurt as much LOL.

You'll have more hits than misses.
 
Sorry to hear of your problem. I did get hangfires with my Thompson Center Black Diamond but none with my Knight Disc. Of course I was not hunting. I was target shooting..
 
Curious as to what bullet you are shooting in your Elite? I had some cold weather trouble with my Elite, switched to Fed 209As and a tighter bullet in the bore(read two hands and a grunt on the ramrod), no more problems at all in the worst of weather.
 
Man, what a nightmare...sounds like your keeping it in perspective though, he'll be bigger next year. We have been using BH209 in our T/C guns (9 in all) with no problems. We've been using 120 grains of powder, Shockwave bullets in either the supplied black sabots or the Harvester short black, and a Federal 209A primer. We've hunted in all kinds of weather and left the guns loaded, bringing them inside night after night, and they still go "BANG" !! Hope you find a combo you can have confidence in. Maybe switching to an Encore, Omega, or Endeavor would help, but a cheaper cure might be to try Federal 209A or CCI 209M primers, perhaps another sabot/bullet combo. Just a thought...Good Luck!
 
FPJ

Some people can shoot the FPJ and some can't. Probably a difference in machining tolerences. My disc extream will hang fire every time with the FPJ concave plug . It has yet to fail with the nonFPJ convex plug and win 209. The fed primer could also help you
Wayles
 
Sorry to hear about your hangfire. I shoot a Knight Disc Extreme with the FJP and have had no problems with hangfires since I switched to Federal 209's. Have also used the Non-FJP w/o problem, but prefer the jacketed for handling reasons. In my rifle, which seems a bit overbore, an extremely tight fit in absolutely necessary (read two hands) and hence I use Knight HP sabots. On a similar note, I went out yesterday for an evening hunt and promptly stepped in a hole burrying myself and gun in 18" of snow!! After about 15 min. of clean-up, I figured I'd see the big boy and get a hangfire or misfire; no such luck. Today, I went and fired gun to be sure and got instant ignition!
 
TNDeer,

For what it's worth, I had a number of hangfires using the Win209A and BH209. I make sure to do the 1/8" drill bit thing after every range session and switched to CCI209M primers. No more hang fires at the range or in the woods in some pretty extreme/wet conditions. This is using the Ext action and FPJ concave plug. I have an NFPJ plug to try, but haven't been to the range yet.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. i'm shooting the 260 gr Harvester PT with a Crush rib sabot. It's not exactly a tight fit but I do seat it very firm on the powder. I keep the nipple clean with a drill bit. This bullet combo shoots great, but I may need to use a tighter sabot or bullet. I will definitely try some CCI or Federal primers.May try the Barnes bullets. I've got pretty of time before next season to come up with an answer.
 
With reports, as you stated before, with others having ignition problems with Winchester primers and BH 209 I believe that all you need to do is try another primer. I shoot a T/C Triumph with the BH 209 and CCI primers and I haven't had any problems. Give CCI primers a try. Hopefully, they will solve your problem.
 
I'm shooting an Omega and I'm on my first bottle of BH209 with T/C primers and have not had a hang fire yet. The gun has been loaded and been in the field then in the house afterward with no problems. I'm pretty new at this but this has been my experirnce so far.
 
I talked to Keith at Western Powders today and he highly suggest I use CCI mag primers. He said they have the best luck with them even in the knights. He did say that they had no problems with TCs no matter how dirty the breech plug got. I ordered a box of CCI mag and 2 more bottles of BH209 from Midsouth Shooting supply. Couldn't find CCI mag in the Nashville area and I got 1 more hunt this saturday in KY so I decided to make the most of the hazmat fee and get powder and primers. I will try CCI in the Knight and if no problems rear their ugly head, I will continue on with the Knight. If problems keep happening, I will be investing in a TC Endeavor.
 
I believe a tighter fitting sabot would help. I was using the .50/.40 CR in my Knight DISC and once it got cold I had a hangfire. I switched to the .50/.40 MMP and had no more hangfires as I did some cold weather testing last week (10 to 30 degrees). I have been using the Federal 209A Primers the whole time. I hope this helps.
 
i shoot an omega with 73 weighted grains of bh209, 250grn shockwave, black harvester crush rib sabot, and cci209m primers. it can be loaded with one hand but it's real hard. i also really press down on the charge hard with two hands when seating the bullet. fires perfectly every time.
 
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