Inherited a Knight MK-85 Questions

[Archibear1]

I have not shot muzzle loaders for years now.  This Knight MK-85 50 Cal is my first in-line.  I inherited it from my grandpa and it's been sitting in my gun case for 6-8 years now with out much attention.  But I kind of want to go make some smoke....
I have a host of questions: (here's 4)

1. Leave it Cap or convert it to 209 Primer?
   Knight makes a conversion kit to 209 primer and am considering this.  I remember the snap... nothing from a cap when I was a teenager out shooting muzzle loader with my dad.  Plus the 209 primers are available everywhere!
   I have noticed that the nipple on this Knight is a little hard to get at.  So I'm not sure which would be easier the cap, the 209 primer or the full plastic seal 209 primer they offer.
2. Owners Manual
   Any one know where I can grab a PDF for the owners manual the one Knight now offers on their website does not seem to cover the MK-85.
3. Effective Loads?
   I've been doing some reading on this site and others and it seems like a 240gr sabot/bullet with about 100gr load of 777 or Goex FFF or Pyrodex P is the norm.  Does the sabot replace the need for a patch? 
4. Care and Cleaning
   There seems to be two lines of thought regarding using "natural" cleaners and lubes vs chemical cleaners and oils.  So anyone have suggestions about using things like Bore Butter and Number 13 vs chemical cleaners and oils... although I don't really understand how oil can cause fouling.

Dad and I built a kit rifle 25-30 years ago and we shot lead balls out of it and what I recall as Maxi-Bullets.  So what I know is measure powder, dump it in, put a pre-lubed patch on a ball and smack it into the gun then ram it down till it's all nice and snug.  Put a cap on the nipple and blow up a milk jug full of water.

 

[Blacksheep]

I can help you with <a href='/tags/3' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #3'>#3</a> and 4.  Yes it replaces a patch. A sabot is a plastic shoe it holds the pistol bullet either .44 cal or .45 cal it will have a little cup on the bottom to sit on the powder charge.  When the charge goes the plastic cup expands to seal the bore when the bullet and sabot exit the barrel the air pulls the sabot free of the bullet.  there are quiet a few and you may have to try different loads to see what your rifle likes each rifle is a law unto itself.

On no.4 when I use Pyrodex or 777 I use Ballistol and mix it 90 % water to 10 percent Ballistol after cleaning i will use straight Ballistol as a rust prevent and use a patch with Gun Scrubber to wipe out the Ballistol prior to shooting.  I used to use those natural cleaners and found at least for me that Ballistol was easier to use and just as effective.

 

[Archibear1]

I can help you with <a href='/tags/3' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #3'>#3</a> and 4.  Yes it replaces a patch. A sabot is a plastic shoe it holds the pistol bullet either .44 cal or .45 cal it will have a little cup on the bottom to sit on the powder charge.  When the charge goes the plastic cup expands to seal the bore when the bullet and sabot exit the barrel the air pulls the sabot free of the bullet.  there are quiet a few and you may have to try different loads to see what your rifle likes each rifle is a law unto itself.

On no.4 when I use Pyrodex or 777 I use Ballistol and mix it 90 % water to 10 percent Ballistol after cleaning i will use straight Ballistol as a rust prevent and use a patch with Gun Scrubber to wipe out the Ballistol prior to shooting.  I used to use those natural cleaners and found at least for me that Ballistol was easier to use and just as effective.

Thanks Clyde I appreciate the information. 
I think I'll get some sabot and some other things and a couple types of powder and go see what does what.   It sounds like the clean up and care of the gun really comes down to what works for me.

 

[Blacksheep]

Yes you are exactly right.  I have a CVA Buckhorn that is somewhat similar to the Knight I have mine set -up for musket caps it helps with the fouling  209 can dump a ton of fouling into any action.

 

[Archibear1]

I am having trouble getting the Hammer Assembly out of this thing.  I removed the set pin on the side and have tried to turn this thing loose but it's stuck tight.  I want to make sure this thing is clean and ready before I shoot it.  Grandpa was good at maintenance but it's been probably at least 15-20 years since this thing has been fired. 

 Any suggestions?  Do I need to take the whole barrel-receiver off the stock and soak the breach end in boiling water?
:Questuon: :Questuon: :Questuon:

 

[exMember]

You may try dropping the trigger assembly or pull back on the trigger as you pull the bolt out. I don't know a whole lot about those knights. Had an lk93 but it was not my favorite!

 

[Whokalouie]

If you do change over to the 209 I am in the market for a Western set up with <a href='/tags/11' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #11'>#11</a> or musket cap.

I believe the LK-93, LK-ll, MK-85, BK-92, American Knight, TK2000, Bighorn and Littlehorn are interchangeable all being 50ca.

 

[WV Hunter]

I have not shot muzzle loaders for years now.  This Knight MK-85 50 Cal is my first in-line.  I inherited it from my grandpa and it's been sitting in my gun case for 6-8 years now with out much attention.  But I kind of want to go make some smoke....
I have a host of questions: (here's 4)

1. Leave it Cap or convert it to 209 Primer?
   Knight makes a conversion kit to 209 primer and am considering this.  I remember the snap... nothing from a cap when I was a teenager out shooting muzzle loader with my dad.  Plus the 209 primers are available everywhere!
   I have noticed that the nipple on this Knight is a little hard to get at.  So I'm not sure which would be easier the cap, the 209 primer or the full plastic seal 209 primer they offer.
2. Owners Manual
   Any one know where I can grab a PDF for the owners manual the one Knight now offers on their website does not seem to cover the MK-85.
3. Effective Loads?
   I've been doing some reading on this site and others and it seems like a 240gr sabot/bullet with about 100gr load of 777 or Goex FFF or Pyrodex P is the norm.  Does the sabot replace the need for a patch? 
4. Care and Cleaning
   There seems to be two lines of thought regarding using "natural" cleaners and lubes vs chemical cleaners and oils.  So anyone have suggestions about using things like Bore Butter and Number 13 vs chemical cleaners and oils... although I don't really understand how oil can cause fouling.

Dad and I built a kit rifle 25-30 years ago and we shot lead balls out of it and what I recall as Maxi-Bullets.  So what I know is measure powder, dump it in, put a pre-lubed patch on a ball and smack it into the gun then ram it down till it's all nice and snug.  Put a cap on the nipple and blow up a milk jug full of water.

MK's are excellent rifles! Top quality, and very accurate. I've owned many, still have 4. 

To answer your questions...

1. I would NOT change to 209 ignition. These rifles have one of the best <a href='/tags/11' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #11'>#11</a> setups ever made. There is really no advantage at all in using 209. I prefer the RWS 1075 caps if you can find them, if not CCI or Winchester work great too. If you do your part in keeping the rifle clean, proper loading, etc... you should never have a misfire. 

2. send me your email through pm, I can email you the owners manual

3. These guns have excellent barrels, and shoot a variety of rounds very well. I've owned around 10 and every one shot 240-260gr saboted bullets over 90-100gr lights out. I prefer pyrodex, many like 777. I would start at 90gr and work up 5gr at a time, see what your gun likes best. The Knight factory 260gr bullets that they sell are made by Speer and shoot very well, as well as perform well on game. So many good bullets in the 240-260gr range, take your pick. My personal favorite for my .50 MK's are 240gr Speer Deep Curls (.429/44) but they are hard to find right now. I would also take a look at 240-250gr XTP's. A good all around bullet for deer. 

4. I would steer away from bore butter. I've always used <a href='/tags/13' rel='nofollow' title='See all tagged subjects with: #13'>#13</a> cleaner on my MK's, but there are plenty of cleaners that work well. 

Make sure to clean the rifle real well, including the breechplug before your first use. I use grease on my breechplugs, never had an issue with sticking even after 40+ shots. If you plan to scope your rifle, you probably want to use a bra or something to cover the scope over the open breech...otherwise it will get powder burned. I personally use black electrical tape, and cut and wrap everything between the rings. Works great. 


RE: the hammer....take the ramrod out, and stock off, then remove trigger assy. Spray penetrating oil down in the breech towards the hammer and let it soak standing up a few days. Hopefully that will loosen it up. I'd use leather around the hammer screw, and vice grips. That part is not normally one that sticks, hopefully it will free up easily. When you put it back in, just tighten it snug. The set screw holds it in. 

Also, when you do re-assemble, put the trigger on before putting the hammer in. Then w safety off, pull the trigger while pushing hammer assy in. 

Let me know if you have questions, glad to help you out.