Investarms Hawken

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ah, now i see that set trigger. if the barrel length is about 28", then what you have is a dead ringer for the dixie gun works hawken (investarms) ...

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_in ... ts_id=3460

PR0502.JPG



i always remove hooked breech barrels for cleaning. i would not use soapy water nor hot water ever on any firearm, ever. i would strongly recommend using just plain ol' tepid tap water. that will do the job just as well and fast, but without compromising the steel molecules. then i use any clp type cleaner/lubricant/protectorant, and leave the bore wet with that clp. make SURE to clean out the barrel's patent breech antechamber and the flue that goes to the bolster. the bolster has a clean out screw - IF you can unscrew it, clean out the bolster and flue. i don't have caplocks, only flintlocks. i always take off the lock, remove the flint, wash the lock in tap water and scrub with a toothbrush, pat dry, spray the mechanics liberally with wd40, pat off the excess. that's it and all of that is more than enuf. :yeah:
Re; water temp,,, you absolutely cannot get water hot enough to do anything to the "steel molecules". Using hot water causes the steel to dry completely and faster than using tepid water.
 
Re; water temp,,, you absolutely cannot get water hot enough to do anything to the "steel molecules". Using hot water causes the steel to dry completely and faster than using tepid water.

To each their own and for me there is NO NEED for hot water and any guns. Dittos for "soap".

And YES - there is a Great Chance of "flash rust" in any steel bbl accepting hot water. Been there, done that, seen that.

TEPID water is all that's ever been needed to clean any muzzleloader.

But this typing will fall on deaf ears, so be it ... to each their own.
 
FWIW ...

ime, over the last few decades with investarms barrels none were ever spot welded, and any i've worked on we're removable by me. they are machined to very tight tolerances and can be removed with semi-special tools. i have removed well over a dozen investarms breech plugs from their flintlock rifles. you can see my tools and me doing just that in several posts in this sub-forum. traditions, cva, jukar and others are near impossible to remove and traditions even cautions that attempting to remove a breech plug will destroy the barrel. i avoid those brands.

HOWEVER, there is no intrinsic need for most folks to remove any trad ml breech plugs or caplock bolsters. that is, unless you dry ball and can't blow it out with compressed air or a forced-in powder charge. been there, had those problems, and plug removal was the only course of action.

side note - when you dry ball and attempt to remove with a screw worm, the action of the screw biting into the lead will expand the lead and further tighten the ball's grip to the patch, and the rifling lands (if it's not a smoothbore). two ways to help alleviate that problem is to use a small diameter screw worm and/or pre-drill a hole into the ball using a very straight dowel or carbon fiber rod that is almost the diameter of the barrel's bore, with a 1/16" to 3/32" drill bit epoxied into one end of the dowel. use the drill bit to bore a pilot hole for the screw worm. it usually works quite nicely, particularly for guys using really tightly patched balls.

with almost all offshore trad ml barrels, they're never cleaned after proofing and that residue should be cleaned out before you set off yer first shot - both the barrel and antechamber, and the flue. if it's a caplock and the clean out screw can be removed, do so to make flue cleaning easier than trying to snake down the fire hole after the nipple is removed. you can see that residue from two different investarms barrels in two of my threads.

as to how to clean any ml barrel, everyone has their own materials and process. the hot water cleaning thing - and add in the soap thing, too - has been around for decades, but not centuries. there is no realistic proven need for either hot water or soap or any other bp residue chemical. hot water expands the steel molecules and that let's in water and krap and removes any inherent "seasoning" (like why you don't scrub a cooking skillet or pan, let alone touch it with soap!).

what's needed is just plain water, because bp residue is VERY water solvent. get the residue out, that's the main idea. in both the 18th and 19th centuries that was all that was on hand and needed for both bp ml's and bp cartridge rifles. lots of really old barrels have survived quite nicely for over a century with just water cleaning,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!! :lewis::lewis:
 
To each their own and for me there is NO NEED for hot water and any guns. Dittos for "soap".

And YES - there is a Great Chance of "flash rust" in any steel bbl accepting hot water. Been there, done that, seen that.

TEPID water is all that's ever been needed to clean any muzzleloader.

But this typing will fall on deaf ears, so be it ... to each their own.
when i heard molecules, i thought of how heat treating works on steel,, re-aligning molecular structure, specifically "grain structure" ... "flash rust",, now thats a different story & is a chemical reaction" not what i was thinking of,, and a new term for me.. something to keep an eye on.. (i've never used hotter than my tap water & never got rust either) maybe boiling water is more likely to cause "oxidation" which is what flash rust would be...
 
Great info in this thread. Thanks rfd. Next time I clean my White Mountain Carbine
I’ll do a better job in the breech, esp at the crazy prices they see to command!
 
Re; water temp,,, you absolutely cannot get water hot enough to do anything to the "steel molecules". Using hot water causes the steel to dry completely and faster than using tepid water.
Maybe try running a magnet up and down the barrel as you’re cleaning it with really hot water. That might realign the molecular structure into a north-south orientation... which will work very well in northern latitudes, not sure about shooters living near the equator.
 
I see Cayuga Dave has been resurrected with this old thread. Miss that guy. He knew a lot and always tried to help.
 
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