Knight .45 shooters

[wayles]

sabot

Lane.... both sabots shot well, but I do believe the blue harvester was a tad better. It did not show the stress the tan mmp did I have not tried the green yet. Evidently they are new from TC/MMP. I have not bought any SW in a while because the SSt's were always cheaper but I will invest in a box. If they shoot well I would not have to buy the harvesters separate
Wayles

 

[wayles]

.375 in the .45?

Seems strange someone[MMP] would make a mold for sabots in a .357/.45 and not be willing to invest in a mold for a theoreticaly better shooter in the .375/.40. Evidently Epps bought the mold?? or did he??. If 40 of us pitched in 100 bucks we could have our own mold made. Is there that much interest out there??
Wayles

 

[NimrodRx]

I don't think Cecil bought the mold, you can still buy a MMP .357/40 sabot. It just looks different than the orange PR .357/40 sabot. I think this was prompted by Cecil's work with the .357 DC bullet (I can't at the present moment recall the weight of the bullet).

40 guys at $100 a pop? I think that's going to be a tough sell.

Personally, I'm hanging my hat on Hawk Prcecisions .40 offering that should be out in Feb. In all reality, shooting a 200 gr .40 bullet at 2450, 2 inches high at 100 and 2.5 inches low at 200 (and doing it sub MOA) is good enough for me. I just want a bullet that will hold together.

If that doesn't work (who am I kidding, even if it does), I'm turning my .30-06 Ruger #1 into a smokeless 40....

 

[Reese]

Re: .45 load

Do you find the smooth blue Harvester to be more accurate than the supplied MMP Tan Sabots?

In my rifle, the smooth light blue Harvester has been more accurate than the supplied MMP tan sabots.

I have not tried the crush ribs in my .45 (blue) but when I tried them in my .50 (black) they were not as good accuracy wise as the smooth black Harvester sabots.

 

[alphaburnt]

I found some of the 200 gr Shockwaves with green sabot ( model 8244) and bought them to compare with the tan MMP. As far as looks, they are made by Del or come out of his moulds, they are identical-just colored different. They have the same "cup" on the bottom and are the exact same depth. The differences I noticed are the green ones seemed to be stiffer and harder ( different plastic formulation?). I then took a micrometer and measured them. Green ones are .455" nearer to the bullet point end of the sabot petal and .457" near the deepest part of the base where the bullet is seated. I used the same bullet and measure the MMP tan at .456" top and .458" base.

 

[NimrodRx]

Good info MQ. Thanks for sharing.

 

[wayles]

.45 cal stuff

I got to thinkin[dangerous I know] but last summer before I got my knight .45 I was shootin the barns 175 redhot in my encore .45 barrel. [ QLA has not been removed yet ]I was gettin about 1.5 in at 100 yds useing 120 grains of 777 powder. At this point no one trully knew how fast 120 grains of black horn could push a 175 gr. redhot. I inquired if any one had used the bullet on deer and I believe it was grouse said that he did use it on two deer . Little hole in little hole out , no blood and long trailing job. Last nite I went back and reviewed the old posts. He was useing 2 pellets of 777 if I remember correctly, 100 grains anyway of loose or pellets. Well heres the thinkin part, useing the 175 and the knight .45 plus 120 grains of black horn might just get the barns going fast enough to open up, especially if a fellow was to fill the hollow point up with hard beeswax. If it would open up our prayers for a bonded bullet might be answered. I believe the knight will outshoot the Encore, till I get the Qla cut off anyway. Anybody know of a better way to get the barns to open up besides fillin it with wax and drivin it faster. should be close to 2500 fps course it will be considerable slower at 200 yds
Wayles

 

[NimrodRx]

Wayles,

I still have over 100 of the Barnes 175s (picked them up on a close out at nearly 60% off). That and the 195gr Barnes were/are the bullet I wanted to shoot. Burnt a lot of BH209 to find out that it aint gonna happen out of the 30 twist Elite 45. Not the ones I have anyway. YMMV.

Furthermore, I remain unconvinced that the Barnes isn't expanding. This issue has been beat into the ground on the green board.

The Barnes doesn't expand, and the SST comes apart... I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. One just has to decide what is more important. Where do you want to hedge your bets?

Personally, I will take the bullet that guarentees deep straight line penetration every time. Even if the Barnes never expands (which it does), a .40 dia hole straight through a WT (the Barnes WILL exit) equals a dead deer.

I'm not saying that my way is the right way, just my way.

FWIW, every rifle I know of that shoots the 195 Barnes accurately has a 24 or faster twist and most are smokeless.

 

[wayles]

barns

I think I pretty much agree with your thoughts but I want to draw on some of your experience. What sabot were you shooting with the 175 barns and how much powder . I was having reasonable accuracy with the 1 in 28 twist encore barrel . I really think it will do better without a qla. Do you think the wax in the hollow point will help the barns to open? Is the disc extreme the same 1 in 30 twist . I thought it was a 1 in 28 . I guess I will have to measure it. Your input is appreciated
Wayles

 

[NimrodRx]

Wayles,

No, I don't think the wax will help it open. It may help to create more of a "spitzer" type ogive and help it bullisticly, but I don't think it would help with expansion. Some of the guys on the green board are doing this and it makes sense. That said, I don't think it needs any help with expansion.

The "Barnes expansion" debate has raged all over the net. Do some reading about the TSX. I have killed truck loads of game with Barnes bullets ranging from .204 Ruger to .338 win mag to .45/300 Expanders out of my 50 cals. They are pricey, but I would bet the hunt of a lifetime on them.

IMHO, bore sized exits (key word - exit) from the Barnes result when the bullet opens and the petals (some or all) shear off after encountering heavy mass. I have had this happen. Is this a bullet failure? Depends on your definition.

Bullet failure in my book has nothing to do with whether the animal died or not.

I have no issue with cup and core bullets (especially bonded), and use them regularly. I do have issues with pushing pistol bullets at center fire speeds. You can get away with this with the Barnes (i.e. the original or the XPB) because it is monolithic - there's no core to sperate. If someone would build a 10mm bullet that is designed for 2700 fps (and I think Hawk Precision is) I would gladly use it.

The only sabot I tried the 175 out of was the MMP with 110-140 gr of BH209. Some guys report success with the Barnes and the Harvester sabot. I haven't tried yet.

My 45 smokeless is supposed to be here in 3 months. I will not likely do any more muzzlelaoder shooting until then. In the mean time, a bunch of coyotes and fox are gonna die The 4 bullets I intend to test are the 195 Barnes, 175 Barnes (only bc I have a bunch of them, I prefer the 195), 200gr Parker Hydracon, and Hawk's offering. My hope is that the 195 Barnes clipping along at 2700'ish fps will shoot moa.