Knight Bighorn in WA - Musket caps, #11, or 209 for pellets?

[badcrc]

Originally my family here in WA all had Knight Bighorns that were setup for musket caps and we all used pyrodex pellets. A few years ago they changed the regulations so we can use modern primers, so I converted my Bighorn to 209 and started using Triple Seven pellets. I never had a hangfire, but some of my family seemed to have issues quite often, so I changed to 209 and 777 and seem to have better accuracy. My nephew switched to a CVA Accura with the new regs that was using #11 caps and ended up throwing it over a cliff one day when it didn't fire at the "buck of a lifetime". He bought the Accura because of the closed breech, and when it didn't fire he had enough. I always thought it was because they don't clean out the nipple properly, but he claims it's water getting into the primer or powder. I've been happy with the 209 setup but it's a real pain removing the primers, but I just have the decapper tool on a lanyard around my neck when I'm hunting and it's not a problem and I like the extra protection from water with the red jackets.

Anyway, said nephew later switched his CVA to BH209 loose powder and still had issues so now he would rather hunt archery season than muzzleloader, so he gave me his CVA Accura V2 and gave another nephew his Bighorn that's setup for musket caps. I'm hesitant to recommend the 209 conversion to the new owner of the Bighorn because it's kind of a pain compared to using a traditional musket cap setup with the nice brass holder to cap/decap, and I'd hate for him to lose his first deer because of my recommendation. Now I'm wondering if I should just tell him to stick with musket caps or switch to #11 or 209. The 209s definitely work well, but seem to be real dirty, but it's also nice when you're all using the same setup so you can use another guy's primers and powder. I think I'm going to recommend he buy the 209 conversion so he has options in the future and he can try both out, but I'd also like to try #11 in my Bighorn with the 777 pellets and maybe not deal with those annoying red jackets. How well do #11 work with pellets compared to musket caps? When using #11 should I use the 209 or musket cap plunger? My original plunger for musket caps doesn't have much of a cone shape, it's a fairly wide shallow "cone".

 

[ElDiablo]

“My nephew switched to a CVA Accura with the new regs that was using #11 caps and ended up throwing it over a cliff one day when it didn't fire at the "buck of a lifetime".”

I don’t use 777 pellets anymore but I do know that Hodgdon says: “Designed for use with 209 shotshelll primers only.”

 

[badcrc]

“My nephew switched to a CVA Accura with the new regs that was using #11 caps and ended up throwing it over a cliff one day when it didn't fire at the "buck of a lifetime".”

I don’t use 777 pellets anymore but I do know that Hodgdon says: “Designed for use with 209 shotshelll primers only.”

Ah, I don't remember seeing that. I saw a lot of posts from people using #11 caps with 777 so that's why i was wondering. I didn't find much about using that combo in a Bighorn and comparing to muskets or 209. I never had much of an issue with musket caps but there were occasions when they got a little loose from hiking or using the same cap getting in and out of a truck several times in a day and I'd just use a new cap. In the late season what I worry about is rain and snow getting in there. We finally got snow during late muzzleloader season last year and I was hiking through snow covered branches and several times I had snow jam packed around my 209. I also had many days of pouring rain last year and It still shot off every time, so I'm pretty confident it works well through all conditions. I just wish there was an easy carry/capper/decapper setup like with musket caps. Right now I'm carrying the 209s in my pocket with speedloaders, plus the removal tool thing around my neck. It's awkward and slow.

 

[WV Hunter]

I saw a lot of posts from people using #11 caps with 777 so that's why i was wondering.

Alot do use #11's with T7, but its LOOSE T7, not pellets

Personally, I'm a huge fan of #11's with loose powder in the Knight Plungers - T7, Pyrodex, real black, etc... (not BH209, its designed for 209's only). The Knight #11 system is absolutely fantastic. It works flawlessly. Nothing wrong with the RPJ setup, and yes they do seal well for bad conditions. The cone on the plunger for 209's has a point, and the ideal for #11's or Musket caps is flat - so it won't flare out the nipple over time. Knight went to a small cone in recent years that they use for everything I believe.

I'm willing to bet your all your family member's issues were user related.

 

[badcrc]

Alot do use #11's with T7, but its LOOSE T7, not pellets

Personally, I'm a huge fan of #11's with loose powder in the Knight Plungers - T7, Pyrodex, real black, etc... (not BH209, its designed for 209's only). The Knight #11 system is absolutely fantastic. It works flawlessly. Nothing wrong with the RPJ setup, and yes they do seal well for bad conditions. The cone on the plunger for 209's has a point, and the ideal for #11's or Musket caps is flat - so it won't flare out the nipple over time. Knight went to a small cone in recent years that they use for everything I believe.

I'm willing to bet your all your family member's issues were user related.

Okay so my original plunger would work for the #11s, but I've never tried loose powder. Guess I'll just stick with the 209 setup for mine. Yes, I think all their issues were not cleaning thoroughly. They all also used Bore Butter so the bullets loaded easier, so that's what I used originally then I stopped using it when I saw what a mess it makes and read about the issues here on the forum.

I know at least two of their failures were definitely user related. One time we were doing muzzleloader elk and on the last day of the season we were on roads not shown on the truck GPS, so we stopped to look at a map. My brother and his buddy walked a trail while we were looking at the map and they walked up on a herd of elk bedded down by a river about 60 feet away below them. Both their guns failed to fire. They realized later my brother had purchased fresh reenactment caps, and earlier that day he was handing them out to everyone so they had "fresh caps". I didn't take any because I never believed in the "you need new caps every season" theory. My caps always fired, even after years. I don't think any of us will ever get a shot at elk that easy again.

 

[sabotloader]

badcrc

I am assuming you are or will use #11 Mag caps or the RWS 1075+ cap when igniting T7 pellets. And certainly a 209 primer will but you might be creating the infamous "crud ring" near the bottom of the bore.

Shooting BH from a CVA requires that you get a CVA breech plug built for BH-209. The normal CVA plug will cause intermittent ignition.

Re-enact ML caps do not have the heat produced with previous Musket caps that were built for hunting.

 

[MSalyards]

I have both the Accura and the Bighorn. I have never had a problem with either. I use Pyrodex select on the Bighorn fired off with RWS musket caps. The Accura shoots Blackhorn 209 fired of with 209 shotgun primers. I have heard that the 777 crud ring is cured with a lighter cap, maybe the low powered cci musket caps would solve the problem. I personally would use regular black or Pyrodex in my Bighorn as Im not a fan of 777 pellets or loose powder.

 

[brad502a]

I have always had positive ignition using T7 and #11 caps, but it has always been loose T7

 

[badcrc]

badcrc

I am assuming you are or will use #11 Mag caps or the RWS 1075+ cap when igniting T7 pellets. And certainly a 209 primer will but you might be creating the infamous "crud ring" near the bottom of the bore.

Shooting BH from a CVA requires that you get a CVA breech plug built for BH-209. The normal CVA plug will cause intermittent ignition.

Re-enact ML caps do not have the heat produced with previous Musket caps that were built for hunting.

In my Bighorn I'm using the 209 conversion with the red jackets and T7 pellets. It is dirtier down by where the pellets sit, but that's the only thing I've noticed. My nephew that received the Bighorn ordered the 209 conversion, but I told him he should just stick with musket caps, so we'll see what he wants to do. That Bighorn was setup for musket caps and mostly was shot with Pyrodex pellets. Since I posted I found out the CVA Accura V2 I received has the BH209 plug installed but the firing pin is for #11 caps. I emailed CVA and they said I should switch out the plug to the NW 209 Plug for pellets and switch the firing pin. I read some posts from people saying the BH209 plug is fine for pellets but CVA must not think so...that plug is hollowed out more for powder.

Re: Re-enactment caps: Yes I found that out that day watching those two guys miss giant bull elk on the last day of the season

I have both the Accura and the Bighorn. I have never had a problem with either. I use Pyrodex select on the Bighorn fired off with RWS musket caps. The Accura shoots Blackhorn 209 fired of with 209 shotgun primers. I have heard that the 777 crud ring is cured with a lighter cap, maybe the low powered cci musket caps would solve the problem. I personally would use regular black or Pyrodex in my Bighorn as Im not a fan of 777 pellets or loose powder.

Interesting, well I'm still configuring, but like I said I've only used pellets, but this CVA already has the BH209 plug so I might try loose powder this year after I swap the firing pin out for 209.

I have always had positive ignition using T7 and #11 caps, but it has always been loose T7

OK, well when I order the 209 plug made for pellets for the Accura I'll have all the plugs and firing pins to try every combo. I'm leaning towards using 209 primers with powder since the Accura already has the BH209 plug installed.