Laying down the ol'e slug gun...

[GM54-120]

Steel bases like Warnes or Leupolds, preferably true Milspec Picatinny especially if you go with a one piece rail. There are better higher end stuff like Murphys and Farrel if the budget allows them.

Burris Signature Z rings are super nice and so are Warnes.

All in one...DNZ DeadNutz if they make one for your application.

BTW NULAs come with Talleys. Not awesome but not bad for light weights.

 

[chaded]

I dont need to duplex my SML. I never dulpex in my NULA and its never even had a hiccup. Ive yet to see any NULA owner complain of a fail to fire. Hankens Rifles plug design even ignites in extreme temps with a easy loading sabotless .451 185gr bullet and a LRMP. I can easily load my 45 to never missfire with the correct powder and a 209. I never heard of a Swinglock owner having an ignition issue. PA machine also makes a Savage type plug for better reliability with slower powders.

With all due respect, WE may be pushing a lot on to a shooter that's just getting started into muzzleloading and wanted opinions on the LHR Redemption. Although he may find the information interesting, it may also be way above his head (no disrespect intended to Aqua12345) and/or mine and/or many others. Its evident by Ill. law that he can use smokeless, which evidently he didn't care to shoot or would have asked the question in the smokeless forum. But because it has been brought up, he's learning that smokeless and in .45 isn't as easy as "off the shelf" and just dropping it down the barrel. There's work to it and "some" of those rifles (shooters) do require a duplex load in extreme weather. If he's looking for something to pick up off the shelf, be confident with and be accurate without a lot of workup, I still suggest he remain with the .50's. If he wants to spend $5,000 to $7,000 on a custom rifle to start, wait two years for it, hey, I'm all for it.

Well now you've done peeked my curiosity. Do you even own a smokeless muzzleloader or is everything that you keep saying about them just coming from stuff you've read on the internet? If it is the latter, please stop while you're behind. There are a few members on this board that could very easily guide a newbie starting out with smokeless muzzleloaders and if he jumped over on Dougs Message forum I guarantee they would have him up and running in NO time. It's not hard like you are making it out. There is a TON of load data already done for anyone that wants to start. It's not hard to figure out the size of your barrel either. Duplex loading isn't hard either. How hard is it to dump powder down a barrel? A lot of people don't even duplex. If you can read, dump powder and push a bullet down a barrel then you can use a smokeless muzzleloader.

 

[ENCORE50A]

chaded............

No, I do not own a smokeless. I have no need for one.

However, I did my research on smokeless and not just reading it off the internet. I spent months researching smokeless and I made phone calls and talked to smokeless builders on Doug's Message Board that you pointed out. My phone conversations were long and extensive. Then I spent more time going over the information that those two builders provided me, including the safety warnings they gave me. Yup, we all know about blown up or bulged smokeless barrels, operator error... Those builders were very kind and took all the time necessary to answer my questions and providing much more information than I had questions. VERY GOOD PEOPLE.

After I spent that time researching smokeless, especially considering their (builder's) warnings, limited choice of bullets, possible use of wool wads and knurling bullets, adding in the fact that smokeless is NOT legal in my state's designated muzzleloading seasons, the choice became easy for me. I want something that if I'm going to shoot it a couple thousand times a year, I also want to be able to hunt with it. With a smokeless, that can't happen, short of using BH209, that gives me no more advantage than my Pro Hunter.

I'm not bashing smokeless or smokeless shooters, however when smokeless shooters receive any negative comments about it, they immediately become defensive. Happened the same way when the Knight inline first came out or, when the compound bow was developed and certainly the Savage ML. I dare say that most likely smokeless shooters actually started shooting BP or substitutes, then wanting to increase their knowledge or improve their adventures, graduated to the smokeless rifles. Is it the right thing for a new comer to muzzleloading? So from what those builders on Doug's told me, there is more to it than just pulling something off the shelf and certainly safety concerns. I'm not stating it from just not owning one or reading it on the internet, THEY stated it as builders.

One example of an estimate of two................

Estimate
Date 01/14
Estimate No.
Name/Address
Project
Arrowhead Sporting Goods LLC 1302 Arrowhead RD Mount Vernon, IA 52314
Item Description Quantity Cost Total ASG008 Pac-Nor 458 - Contour TBD 1 436.00 436.00T ASG024 Rem 700 3/16" SS Recoil Lug (Callahan) 1 33.00 33.00T ASG033 Modified Sav 3/8" Hex Head Bushing Breech Plug 1 82.50 82.50T Misc Parts Boyds Lamiante T-hole (pepper) 1 164.80 164.80T ASG021 Hunter 700ML Bolt Nose Kit 1 88.00 88.00T ASG030 700ML Firing Pin Spring 1 5.25 5.25T Labor Assemble & Pillar Bed 1 300.00 300.00T Accessories 1 0.00 0.00 ASG079 24" - 3 Piece Ramrod w/bore guide (jag not included) 1 52.00 52.00T ASG087 SpinJag 45 BXL "Loader" Jag (for Parker Match Hunters) 1 25.00 25.00T ASG103 Murphy REM700 SA One Piece SS Base 1 125.00 125.00T Misc Parts Jewell Trigger 1 210.00 210.00T
Subtotal 1,521.55 Insurance Insurance 0.85% 12.93 FedEx Shipping FedEx Shipping 25.00 25.00 Sales Tax 0.00% 0.00
Total $1,559.48

 

[Aqua12345]

Gents,

I do appreciate the concerns towards a newcomer to the ML scene, aka me. And by no means am I taking any offence to responses directed towards me, I consider it all honest and pertinent information and I have to sift through what I think is too much and what I can comprehend for now. I am hitting a young 55 this year and I want to try something different than shotgun slugs during deer season. I am going down the road to purchase a new ML and here in Illinois I do have the freedom to shoot smokeless powders. So that has now become part of the equation. I also have the desire to purchase something other than an average off the shelf gun. There are plenty good models out there and I mean no disrespect to others who have gone that route.

I will say that my quest for knowledge on this purchase has been entirely through this board. I have come to understand that there is an art to this sport when compared to just throwing a slug in the chamber and boom. There is a ton of information here and on other boards to help guide me along from beginning to end, if there is such a thing. For now this is home and I am grateful to those who have expanded my knowledge and patiently helped me along in my quest. Squeeze, Busta, and especially Encore50A, and GM54-120 for taking the time to respond. And your guidance is going to cost me more $$$.... but greater satisfaction in the long run, I am grateful for all your help. Thank you my brothers.

 

[GM54-120]

The intent is to cost you less dollars but the addiction usually offsets any savings. My Green Mountain 54-120 got me started with the obsession but it is a bit rough on the range. I owned a few prior but just for seasonal hunting. It shoots great with max loads so that what i shoot in it. I then wanted something that was more range friendly and got a couple 45cal smokers. They scratched the itch without the abusive recoil. Lengthy range days lead to dreading a clean up of a couple MLs after a 90mile drive home.

Now i have two for hunting, one main range rifle and a couple that sit in the safe.

It wont end even if you start with one of the best. I had to force myself to not buy anymore.

 

[ENCORE50A]

......................It wont end even if you start with one of the best. I had to force myself to not buy anymore.

:yeah:

Aqua12345, welcome to our world. artyman:

 

[Aqua12345]

I'm presently at my local shop who has a NIB Knight Disk Extreme in .45. Some things don't add up. This has a fluted barrel, with sites, black Syn stock, and red primer holders and the bolt action opens up and slides back about an inch. The run number is 00074. Is this an extreme or an early elite?

 

[ENCORE50A]

This may help, as I know you're in a hurry. Sabotloader posted this in another forum:

Knight Original DISC, Knight DISC Extreme, Knight DISC Elite, Knight Master Hunter, Knight Master Hunter MHC, Knight Long Range Hunter...

I think that is about the progression if of the Knight DISC line.

The Original DISC is the beginning and normally using an Orange DISC. It also has a different shaped stock than does the next generation Extreme which uses the more current red DISC. The Knight DISC Elite - is basically the same rifle as the Extreme other than it has a special recoil lug - 'cantilever' lug to help float the barrel. It also has a slimmed down barrel and does not have open sites.

It is generally believed that the Elite offers better accuracy - that is not necessarily always true, as a Extreme that has been properly fitted to the stock can be just as accurate.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-p ... treme.html

 

[Busta]

I'm presently at my local shop who has a NIB Knight Disk Extreme in .45. Some things don't add up. This has a fluted barrel, with sites, black Syn stock, and red primer holders and the bolt action opens up and slides back about an inch. The run number is 00074. Is this an extreme or an early elite?

Extreme.

Elites are not fluted, they do have a slim profile barrel, do not have sights, and do have a cantilevered barrel lug. Elites are scope only, from the factory.

The .45 caliber Extremes have a 1:30 twist Green Mountain barrel.

 

[Aqua12345]

The reason I am bringing this up is that the shop is eliminating their remaining ML section and I have my own ideas on my dream .50 ca. I thought that a .45 could be great for the range or even a coyote or two. They don't have an Elite which from what I have read is an excellent out of box shooter. Is the Extreme worthwhile for thee hundred bucks?

 

[Omega45]

.45 not good enough for deer?

 

[HawgHunter]

The Knight Disc Elites are probably Knights most accurate rifles that they have ever made. You still see real nice ones up for sale from time to time. If you do find one make sure it has the non plastic jacket breech plug system. I may list mine once I get my smokeless conversions shooting.

 

[sabotloader]

The reason I am bringing this up is that the shop is eliminating their remaining ML section and I have my own ideas on my dream .50 ca. I thought that a .45 could be great for the range or even a coyote or two. They don't have an Elite which from what I have read is an excellent out of box shooter. Is the Extreme worthwhile for thee hundred bucks?

The 45 is am excellent deer rifle if your State will allow the use of that caliber on Big Game. Most States will allow it for elk.

It would be my feeling that $300 is on the high side for that rifle but certainly not out of reason for a NIB rifle.

The accuracy difference between the Extreme is the Elite is non existent if both rifles are mounted in the stock correctly.

 

[toytruck]

.45 not good enough for deer?

Tell that to the last 4 deer I killed with my .451 White....

 

[GM54-120]

He could use it Illinois but it would need a full bore projectile. If a 50-385gr Great Plains will take down a deer, i see no reason why a 385gr 45cal cant. I know 360s shoot fine in a slower twist. I hate to say it but a 300gr PowerBelt Plat shoots really good too.

NoExcuses sells some 451-385gr if im not mistaken.

 

[Squeeze]

Haha, Its almost good to hear someone else say the 300 powerbelt shoots well. It might be the benchmark, from my triumph at least. It is still one of the best shooting bullets even though I decided to stop hunting with them. I shot 4-5 deer with them and really had no problems.

 

[GM54-120]

That was a 45cal 300gr PB Plat. The sectional density is far better than a 300gr 50cal. They really made the 45 thump too.