Long range muzzleloader

[masakimm]

Yeah the regs here are pretty relaxed on muzzle loaders I have been hunting with a Cva Optima v2 with Leupold ultimate slam and 295 grain powerbelt bullets and have had some luck with 275 - 300 yards at a property I used to hunt in Monroe county now where I am at once I clean the land up I will maybe have a 100 yard shot.

 

[52Bore]

Is there a long range mler? I have a great place to hunt but it's open fields and the deer are always on other side of property.i have a knight disc 45 I've shot it at 200 yes with good luck but I need something g to shoot further.

Think about starting with a rifle bullet and not a pistol bullet.
Knight factory 45 1:20’s are great rifles and will do more than you can imagine if your willing to experiment a little.

 

[reelamin]

I also am looking for what some call a long range muzzle loader. I want a 300yd Elk rifle with iron sights. Personally....your going to have to seriously up the FPS for good killing power at those yardages. Optics are a huge advantage and for me ethical at that range. If I had better eyes maybe the right open sight. Bottom line is you owe it to the animal for a humane and solid one shot kill.

Just like today. We get on the buck we want to kill..."Bad Genes"...a monster 2PT with just a little kicker making him legal. My kid says "why didnt you let it fly" he was close. I said he was 90 and I only have a 80 pin, not going to just fling arrows and risk wounding him. Kid...we can track him and he needs to die....so let it fly!. I told him yep when I was your age I would have...more important to just enjoy them and the time in the hills.

 

[samwilliamson]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Long range muzzleloader

I'm gonna wait until I talk to bestill creations to decide which way to go.

You still have time to bid on the Knight 45 on GunBroker.com. its at $305 right now. It needs a conversion, but its the 1:20 you're looking for , in stainless.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

When i get time . ill shoot some targets at 400 and 500 yards with one of my 1-20 Mountaineers . I have not shot them past 300 meters. I truly believe my Mountaineers will hang right with my Knight 500 at least to 400 yards if not 500 yards.

 

[ENCORE50A]

When i get time . ill shoot some targets at 400 and 500 yards with one of my 1-20 Mountaineers . I have not shot them past 300 meters. I truly believe my Mountaineers will hang right with my Knight 500 at least to 400 yards if not 500 yards.

Doug, I think he's actually after a long range rifle for hunting, not a target rifle and he's indicating at least 400yds. He's going to need more energy than a production rifle can provide, short of using heavy lead like Bob mentioned. IIRC those Knights are still 120grs max of BH?

From my UF, using my max charge, a 300gr bullet is down to < 880 foot pounds energy at 400yds. That's way more propellant than can be shot in any production rifle, including Knight. Around 35% more than production rifles are capable of.

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

I don’t exactly agree about not enough energy from a production rifle. While personally I like lead I have almost 1200 ftlbs energy at 400 yards with a 270 emax or even 275 BE Bullet in 1:20 mountaineer. Twice what’s needed for deer and sufficient for elk even

 

[long shot]

I really don't understand why you need a custom rifle to take deer at 400. Any production rifle is capable of doing so. You just need the right bullet.

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

I really don't understand why you need a custom rifle to take deer at 400. Any production rifle is capable of doing so. You just need the right bullet.

Exactly!!!!!

 

[macon county boy]

Re: RE: Re: Long range muzzleloader

I really don't understand why you need a custom rifle to take deer at 400. Any production rifle is capable of doing so. You just need the right bullet.

With a 1:30 twist?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[long shot]

Using a 1-20 twist Mountaineer

 

[macon county boy]

Re: RE: Re: Long range muzzleloader

Using a 1-20 twist Mountaineer

Ok. My current ml has a 1:30

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[ENCORE50A]

I don’t exactly agree about not enough energy from a production rifle. While personally I like lead I have almost 1200 ftlbs energy at 400 yards with a 270 emax or even 275 BE Bullet in 1:20 mountaineer. Twice what’s needed for deer and sufficient for elk even

Then I'd have to ask, exactly what charge are you shooting and the velocity? Using the data for production muzzleloaders and BH209, 120grs volume MAXIMUM for production rifles, I would find it hard (not impossible) to believe you're getting 1200fpe at 400yds shooting production rifle charges and a 270/275gr bullets.

I'm sending a 300gr bullet at 2265fps from my Ultimate with (DO NOT USE THIS WITH PRODUCTION MUZZLELOADERS) 105grs by WEIGHT of BH209 and at 400yds, it only has 853fpe.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I really don't understand why you need a custom rifle to take deer at 400. Any production rifle is capable of doing so. You just need the right bullet.

Bob, if you read my post before yours, you'll see that I gave you credit for mentioning heavy lead, which is the only way you're going to get sufficient ethical bullet energy at 400yds, without increasing velocity of most 50cal hunting bullets.

 

[52Bore]

Pulled this off the LR section of this site that I put together a while back.
Max charges of BH209, 777 and my black load - mine is similar to loads from the 1850’s.
Photo reduced to post, you may be able to double-click to enlarge.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Pulled this off the LR section of this site that I put together a while back.
Max charges of BH209, 777 and my black load - mine is similar to loads from the 1850’s.
Photo reduced to post, you may be able to double-click to enlarge.
0377156F-C547-4191-9543-533EAAC0194F.jpeg

Glad you thought of that..

 

[sabotloader]

Here is another ballistic sheet shot from a Knight 1-20 Super DISC. I was shot with a Lehigh Defense 40x230CF-HP in a Harvester sabot. Shot with 120 grains of BH-209.

I am showing it shot with a 120 because that is Western's max. At 450 yards combined with the 'Terminal Performance" of this bullet and the energy shown - it will and has handled deer well.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Here is another ballistic sheet shot from a Knight 1-20 Super DISC. I was shot with a Lehigh Defense 40x230CF-HP in a Harvester sabot. Shot with 120 grains of BH-209.

I am showing it shot with a 120 because that is Western's max. At 450 yards combined with the 'Terminal Performance" of this bullet and the energy shown - it will and has handled deer well.

Good point, but...

The Remington Ultimate is rated for 160grs volume as a 50cal. If he had a Remington Ultimate 45 conversion shooting the same bullet the velocity and energy will be much higher at each of those given ranges than with production rifle limited charges. He'd also have the option of shooting smokeless propellant, which can't be done in any production muzzleloader.

So you spend $2,000 say on a Knight 500 and you end up with a 120gr volume BH209 capable rifle. Take approximately the same amount of money, have a Remington Ultimate converted to a 45cal and you end up with 2 rifles in 1, substitute and smokeless, both deadly accurate at extreme long range with more energy than any production rifle.

Its up to the OP and my best advice is for him to talk things over with Jeff, who will point him in the right direction for his specific needs.

 

[long shot]

To the OP , it won't matter what twist or rifle ,custom or otherwise, you have. I've shot enough deer at the Ranges you are talking about to know that unless you have velocity, bullet weight, and BC in REAL time not a proposed drop chart from ballistic table. It must be confirmed on the range and with your Ranger finder to actually work. Then you need practice with converting yardage to MOA on your scope. Seems everyone is forgetting that. Your Drop chart should be at minimum of every 25 yds. for slow velocity and heavy conicals. Wind is your worst enemy.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Im gonna give you my opionion for what its worth. The cheapest way to build /have a long range muzzleloader is a Knight 1-20 Mountaineer with either high BC Modern muzzleloader bullets or heavy lead.

I ran some numbers using my setup
Mountaineer 1-20
300 grain Pittman Aeromax bullet with a BC of .380 .This BC matches up well with my drops
84 /120 Blackhorn 209
velocity 2050 fps (conservative)
500 yards i still have 1057 ft lbs Retained energy

Blackhorn likes 300 grain plus bullets . You can go up to a 325 grain Pittman Aeromax bullet with a BC of .410 and get almost the same speed . in fact my notes have the 325 grain bullet clocked at 2050 fps. I was being conservative using 2050 fps while shooting a 300 grain bullet . Honestly 300 grain bullet is closer to 2100 fps. My point is with a 325 grain Pittman Aeromax you will have a considerable amount more retained energy at 500 yards. Even using 2000 fps with a 325 grain Pittman Aeromax at 500 yards i now have 1171 ft lbs of retained energy at 500 yards with a velocity of 1274 fps.

BC makes a huge difference when dealing with modern muzzleloader bullets these are not low BC pistol bullets.The down fall to this setup my velocity at 500 yards will be 1259 fps with a 300 grain bullet and 1274 fps with a 325 grain bullet. I am not sure how well the bullet will preform at that speed ? I honestly just dont know nor am I advocating shooting deer at this distance. Also these bullets are expensive lol about the same cost of Powerbelts but you can not but them at your local Walmart !

Heavy lead is a proven killer at any distance. The 1-20 Mountaineer will also handle heavy lead very well. Rick,Bob and others have proven this fact. I am just not familiar with heavy lead.

This is just my opionion others will differ .At the PRESENT time Knights Mountaineer in a .45 with a 1-20 twist barrel is your cheapest long range muzzleloader. Inside of 200 yards which 99 percent of the deer are shot it does not matter .

LOL Now you guys can pound the $hit out of my opionion !