Long range muzzleloader
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Nope, no pounding here. I get right around 2100fps with 300gr sabotless too. That is with 84gr of BH209 by weight. Swinglock got around 2000fps with a 350gr Norfolk bullet and very reasonable peak pressures.
Currently a Mountaineer 45 1-20 is the best thing going for long range outside of a custom built rifle. The main thing holding you back will be how well the bullet performs at longer distances.
Currently a Mountaineer 45 1-20 is the best thing going for long range outside of a custom built rifle. The main thing holding you back will be how well the bullet performs at longer distances.
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Won't argue Doug's ballistic energy data. We are discussing bullet energy, not MOA.
If you don't have the money or time to do it right the first time, where will you get the money and time to do it over?
I've dabbled in this long range game the last 5 years and it gets expensive any way you want to figure it. A Knight 45cal 1:20 runs around $1,100, then you add an additional cost for the breech plug modification to make it right. A sizing die will run $175, plus lube and the time to size bullets for a specific bore. Then using the bullets last mentioned at $2.20 EACH, not knowing if they will function properly at long range and low velocity, the "IF's" and costs start going up.
In the long run, I'd have saved myself a TON of money and headaches, buy doing it right the first time. I'd could have ended up with a true long range rifle, capable of heavier charges of BH than any current production rifle, plus...…. the ability to shoot smokeless. 2 in 1 rifle. Yes, I would still need the sizing die and the time to size bullets, but, I'd have had a TON of much cheaper bullets I could choose from, giving me more than enough energy at 400yds. With a Remington 700 action, there's a multitude of different accessories available.
Oh, we're all forgetting about the new CVA 45cal that's coming out this next year.
If you don't have the money or time to do it right the first time, where will you get the money and time to do it over?
I've dabbled in this long range game the last 5 years and it gets expensive any way you want to figure it. A Knight 45cal 1:20 runs around $1,100, then you add an additional cost for the breech plug modification to make it right. A sizing die will run $175, plus lube and the time to size bullets for a specific bore. Then using the bullets last mentioned at $2.20 EACH, not knowing if they will function properly at long range and low velocity, the "IF's" and costs start going up.
In the long run, I'd have saved myself a TON of money and headaches, buy doing it right the first time. I'd could have ended up with a true long range rifle, capable of heavier charges of BH than any current production rifle, plus...…. the ability to shoot smokeless. 2 in 1 rifle. Yes, I would still need the sizing die and the time to size bullets, but, I'd have had a TON of much cheaper bullets I could choose from, giving me more than enough energy at 400yds. With a Remington 700 action, there's a multitude of different accessories available.
Oh, we're all forgetting about the new CVA 45cal that's coming out this next year.
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That is why i said "currently". If this was untrue it sure is not reflected by wins at Friendship. The Mountaineer 45 1-20 dominates the Hunter class. A old SUPER DISC can do it nearly as well if you could find one. You need to be able to hit your target before bullet construction is even relevant.
Big soft lead is the easiest path at achieving both. By far the least expensive too.
Big soft lead is the easiest path at achieving both. By far the least expensive too.
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GM54-120 said:
Yes, but the 1:20 production rifle isn't shot against the "customs", where Friendship rules, hamper and limit the custom's true abilities with a 120gr volume maximum charge. With the 1:20 production rifle, you have one rifle. A custom is a 2 in 1 rifle.
You're correct as was Bob and Rick, soft lead is cheaper and does work at long range.
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I ran some sabot numbers for the Fury 40cal 250gr. Estimated BC is around .270 and 2150fps should be no problem with max allowed loads of BH209. Sorry im not gunna take the time to line it all up and forgot to add any wind. While not my choice for long range it is mathematically possible out to 400 yards with a (sub $2) sabot load. The bullet is just under 1" long too btw and $44/50.
Range Velocity Energy Trajectory Come Up (MOA) Come Up (MILS) Wind Drift Wind Drift (MOA) Wind Drift (MILS)
0 2150 2566.0 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
25 2076 2393.0 0.2 -0.6 -0.2 0 0 0
50 2005 2231.0 1.3 -2.5 -0.7 0 0 0
75 1935 2078.0 1.9 -2.4 -0.7 0 0 0
100 1866 1933.0 1.9 -1.8 -0.5 0 0 0
125 1799 1797.0 1.3 -1.0 -0.3 0 0 0
150 1734 1670.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
175 1671 1550.0 -2.0 1.1 0.3 0 0 0
200 1610 1438.0 -4.8 2.3 0.7 0 0 0
225 1550 1334.0 -8.4 3.6 1.0 0 0 0
250 1493 1238.0 -12.9 4.9 1.4 0 0 0
275 1438 1148.0 -18.4 6.4 1.9 0 0 0
300 1386 1066.0 -25.0 7.9 2.3 0 0 0
325 1336 990.0 -32.7 9.6 2.8 0 0 0
350 1289 922.0 -41.6 11.3 3.3 0 0 0
375 1245 860.0 -51.8 13.2 3.8 0 0 0
400 1204 804.0 -63.4 15.1 4.4 0 0 0
425 1167 755.0 -76.5 17.2 5.0 0 0 0
450 1133 712.0 -91.2 19.4 5.6 0 0 0
475 1102 674.0 -107.6 21.6 6.3 0 0 0
500 1075 641.0 -125.8 24.0 7.0 0 0 0
Range Velocity Energy Trajectory Come Up (MOA) Come Up (MILS) Wind Drift Wind Drift (MOA) Wind Drift (MILS)
0 2150 2566.0 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
25 2076 2393.0 0.2 -0.6 -0.2 0 0 0
50 2005 2231.0 1.3 -2.5 -0.7 0 0 0
75 1935 2078.0 1.9 -2.4 -0.7 0 0 0
100 1866 1933.0 1.9 -1.8 -0.5 0 0 0
125 1799 1797.0 1.3 -1.0 -0.3 0 0 0
150 1734 1670.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0
175 1671 1550.0 -2.0 1.1 0.3 0 0 0
200 1610 1438.0 -4.8 2.3 0.7 0 0 0
225 1550 1334.0 -8.4 3.6 1.0 0 0 0
250 1493 1238.0 -12.9 4.9 1.4 0 0 0
275 1438 1148.0 -18.4 6.4 1.9 0 0 0
300 1386 1066.0 -25.0 7.9 2.3 0 0 0
325 1336 990.0 -32.7 9.6 2.8 0 0 0
350 1289 922.0 -41.6 11.3 3.3 0 0 0
375 1245 860.0 -51.8 13.2 3.8 0 0 0
400 1204 804.0 -63.4 15.1 4.4 0 0 0
425 1167 755.0 -76.5 17.2 5.0 0 0 0
450 1133 712.0 -91.2 19.4 5.6 0 0 0
475 1102 674.0 -107.6 21.6 6.3 0 0 0
500 1075 641.0 -125.8 24.0 7.0 0 0 0
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i said at the PRESENT time . The Knight Mountaineer .45 1-20 twist is your cheapest route to find a long range muzzleloader. You will have to push those SST s pretty darn fast out of that Ultimate to even get close to the same energy at 500 yards using a Pittman Aeromax bullet . Even if you could match the energy im not sure how well those bullets would preform at 500 yards on game either. Using smokless powder is a complete different story. I am talking cheapest route with a factory gun.(which is your cheapest route) Otherwise i would be pushing a Bestill Creations custom rifle.
I have competed against customs with my Knights. My scores shooting Knights against my customs have been pretty much a wash . My goal is to shoot a perfect score (excluding Xs) at the Nationals with a factory gun. That has never been accomplished with any rifle . May not be possible but a personal goal for myself.
I have to agree with GM heavy lead would be the cheapest and like I previous stated proven killer at any distance.
I have competed against customs with my Knights. My scores shooting Knights against my customs have been pretty much a wash . My goal is to shoot a perfect score (excluding Xs) at the Nationals with a factory gun. That has never been accomplished with any rifle . May not be possible but a personal goal for myself.
I have to agree with GM heavy lead would be the cheapest and like I previous stated proven killer at any distance.
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Dougs136Schwartz said:
Ok, at the PRESENT time.
The .50cal Ultimate or RUM could shoot those same bullets pretty fast, as the charge is easily beyond that of the Knight 45's capability. Work it up at 2300fps with that bullet.
I'm not saying that it isn't the "cheapest route", going with a Knight. What I'm saying is, do it right the first time and end up with a rifle that will compete with your rifle, yet also be capable of shooting smokeless at 2800 or 2900fps. Like you said, "I'm talking the cheapest route with a factory gun... Otherwise I would be pushing a Bestill Creations custom rifle".
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agree
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My home cast bullet cost under 5 cents each if I buy lead at $1/lb.
My Black Powder Swiss 3f load cost 25 cents.
If I use BH209 it’s 50 cents each.
Primer 10 cents
Add it all up - $0.40 or $0.70 each shot, depending on Powder.
Same cost whether it’s 50yds or 1000.
My Black Powder Swiss 3f load cost 25 cents.
If I use BH209 it’s 50 cents each.
Primer 10 cents
Add it all up - $0.40 or $0.70 each shot, depending on Powder.
Same cost whether it’s 50yds or 1000.
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Re: RE: Re: Long range muzzleloader
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Not at all I'm enjoying the info.45cal said:
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Re: RE: Re: Long range muzzleloader
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I have several on hand.45cal said:
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Jealous you guys have ranges at 400+ yds. Mine maxes at 100yds 
. New one in joining 350max .
Curious to see what you end up with. Smokeless allowed in your state?
. New one in joining 350max . Curious to see what you end up with. Smokeless allowed in your state?
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In Missouri the only muzzle loader restriction is 40cal minimum and single projectile. All powders are legal.
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GM54-120 said:
Good reason for a 2 in 1 rifle....
Michigan used to have a minimum of .44 caliber years ago, but there is no longer any caliber restrictions.
The only restriction now during the Muzzleloading Deer Season statewide or during the All Firearms Deer Seasons in the Limited Firearm Deer Zone is, "A muzzleloading rifle or black powder handgun must be loaded with black powder or a commercially manufactured black powder substitute."
There is an exception now that we have a CWD Core Area and CWD Management Zone. This applies to the CWD Area and Zone only. "Muzzleloader Season is open to all legal firearms, regular firearm equipment rules apply."
Let the slaughter begin!
The only restriction now during the Muzzleloading Deer Season statewide or during the All Firearms Deer Seasons in the Limited Firearm Deer Zone is, "A muzzleloading rifle or black powder handgun must be loaded with black powder or a commercially manufactured black powder substitute."
There is an exception now that we have a CWD Core Area and CWD Management Zone. This applies to the CWD Area and Zone only. "Muzzleloader Season is open to all legal firearms, regular firearm equipment rules apply."
Let the slaughter begin!
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