Muzzleloader Explodes on Firing Range

[GregK]

I know this issue gets tossed around every so many months. I just can’t say enough about witness marks, and how useful they are, especially at the range. I used to do a lot of assisting for muzzleloading shooters when I was practicing myself, and my habit has always been if I walk away from my gun, before it goes back on the bench, the ramrod goes down the barrel to check the witness mark. Like many of you, I’ve shot thousands upon thousands of rounds and anyone can still make a mistake. As long as we have humans, we will have human error.

However, please do not take that as an excuse for anyone stupid enough to put smokeless powder down a non-smokeless approved barrel. If you are dumb enough to do that you’re not smart enough to own a gun IMHO

Greg

 

[GM54-120]

If you are dumb enough to do that you’re not smart enough to own a gun IMHO

Just like someone that thinks loading up a 50BMG case full of HS-6 is ok. If you are that dumb, maybe you need another activity to occupy your time.

 

[BuffaloSoldier]

Don't know this guy, but his point was made. Even if he did "monkey" with the loads. Having weapon failure is no fun.

 

[Bad Karma]

Thats simple
3 pellets plus a bullet
then
3 pellets plus a bullet

Pretty much any ML barrel on the market will burst with that load including a RUML. I think i can dig up a video of it happening if you like. Ive seen a T/C burst too using APP powder. Not sure if it was their pellets or loose powder.

I would like to see that video. Did he do that as a test or was it a negligent occurrence?

 

[GM54-120]

RUML Kaboom..The original video was on Facebook
https://www.fox13now.com/2017/09/19...-rifle-barrel-explodes-during-target-practice
Not sure this is a TC but you can see the APP on the table. Looks like an Omega or one of the BPI clones like Kodiak or Win Apex.

 

[Bad Karma]

RUML Kaboom..The original video was on Facebook
https://www.fox13now.com/2017/09/19...-rifle-barrel-explodes-during-target-practice
Not sure this is a TC but you can see the APP on the table. Looks like an Omega or one of the BPI clones like Kodiak or Win Apex.

Wow. Thanks. Some of what he’s saying doesn’t make much sense. An obstruction after he loaded the rifle? He also said at one point he believes that there might have been a load in the breech before he loaded the rifle and he doesn’t say what powder he was using. Does anyone know what that powder was? I’d also like to hear from the “gunsmith” who cleaned the rifle… that’s just weird. ’ve never believed that you can’t blow up a muzzleloading rifle. Nothing is foolproof, just when you think it is there’s a new improved fool. Still to date I’ve not heard of an overcharge of black powder exploding a barrel.


I do use some replica powders, Pyrodex and T7 but not often. For the most part I stick with real black powder, check the condition of the bore before loading and load appropriate projectiles well seated on the powder charge.

I have been scratching my head trying to remember what I read about 50 years ago. It was Sam Fadala testing a barrel and tried to "blow it up". If I remember all the gases exited the nipple hole and the barrel was fine. Please set me straight if this old mind is off base on this one. I still have the book, just can't remember where it is......too much ML stuff!

Sam did a test using 1/2” K copper pipe he put the pipe into wet cement in a coffee can and let that set up. He then loaded it with 100 grains of 2f and a patched round ball and touched it off with cannon fuse. It fired normally. He doubled the charge, fired normally. Doubled the charge and doubled the projectiles, two patched round balls in a copper pipe ahead of 200 grains of blackpowder. Nothing. He then began to short seat the ball and was able to bulge the copper pipe with a ball seated a couple inches off of the charge. He finally ruptured the pipe by seating a patched ball a couple of inches into the muzzle of his pipe.

 

[NicoleN]

I can understand why multiple bullets act as an obstruction. Makes perfect sense.

I know by reading about it, that having the bullet not seated against the powder is also a bad thing. But I just don't understand why using the correct amount of powder and a single bullet of the right size only part way down the barrel can cause an explosion. Where did the extra pressure come from? I can't understand the dynamics of how the same powder charge can cause more pressure when there is an air gap between the powder and the bullet.

Can anyone elaborate?

 

[ENCORE50A]

I can understand why multiple bullets act as an obstruction. Makes perfect sense.

I know by reading about it, that having the bullet not seated against the powder is also a bad thing. But I just don't understand why using the correct amount of powder and a single bullet of the right size only part way down the barrel can cause an explosion. Where did the extra pressure come from? I can't understand the dynamics of how the same powder charge can cause more pressure when there is an air gap between the powder and the bullet.

Can anyone elaborate?

Google firearm barrel obstructions. Tons of info there.

 

[NicoleN]

Google firearm barrel obstructions. Tons of info there.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Its shotguns but he does explain a bit about the pressure spiking at an obstruction in the barrel and how too much lube in the bore can cause a pretty good spike in pressure.
https://www.shotgunlife.com/shotguns/tom-roster/understanding-barrel-obstruction-bursts.html

 

[Bad Karma]

I can understand why multiple bullets act as an obstruction. Makes perfect sense.

I know by reading about it, that having the bullet not seated against the powder is also a bad thing. But I just don't understand why using the correct amount of powder and a single bullet of the right size only part way down the barrel can cause an explosion. Where did the extra pressure come from? I can't understand the dynamics of how the same powder charge can cause more pressure when there is an air gap between the powder and the bullet.

Can anyone elaborate?

I’m just guessing here but I speculate it has something to do with the rapidly expanding gasses proceeding unimpeded but constantly gathering inertia until suddenly they hit an unmoving object and a pressure spike occurs, like water hammer in a pipeline.

 

[NicoleN]

I’m just guessing here but I speculate it has something to do with the rapidly expanding gasses proceeding unimpeded but constantly gathering inertia until suddenly they hit an unmoving object and a pressure spike occurs, like water hammer in a pipeline.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[NicoleN]

Its shotguns but he does explain a bit about the pressure spiking at an obstruction in the barrel and how too much lube in the bore can cause a pretty good spike in pressure.
https://www.shotgunlife.com/shotguns/tom-roster/understanding-barrel-obstruction-bursts.html

Thanks for the reply. I have a Chinese type 53 "Mosin Nagant" rifle with a swollen spot in the barrel near the muzzle. I can only imagine that excessive gun oil was the culprit. That rifle has been retired. I would like to get it rebarreled, but the cost of rebarreling it I suppose would be prohibitive.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Thanks for the reply. I have a Chinese type 53 "Mosin Nagant" rifle with a swollen spot in the barrel near the muzzle. I can only imagine that excessive gun oil was the culprit. That rifle has been retired. I would like to get it rebarreled, but the cost of rebarreling it I suppose would be prohibitive.

I dont know, there are literally zillions of those out there. I bet its cheaper than you think.

 

[bluefishjim]

Not seating the bullet, with the right amount of powder, has been proved not to blow the barrel. The article was in muzzle blast this summer, I’ll try to find the exact month. But putting two charges may be a different story.

 

[CatHeadBiscuit]

My layman’s guess is:
Gases expanding at X rate of expansion encounter still object. Still object unable to accelerate fast enough to get out of the barrel ie. keep barrel from coming apart. Expanding gases move through path of least resistance ie. Exploding barrel

 

[GoexBlackhorn]

Most of these incidents occur, due to distractions from nearby people that approach the shooter while loading, or nearby commotions that cause the loader to cease loading prematurely and look at what the commotion was about..

It's happened to me at the range and upon resumption of loading, I smartly paused loading and researched where I left-off, when the interruption began.

Inlines make it easy to check where we left-off. For those that don't have check-marks on their ramrods for measurement loading purposes, you better at-least bring a small flashlight in your ML tools box to look down the bore of a closed ML breech system, when unsure.

Dirty bores right near the breech is the 2nd most common reason these explosions happen (short loads not seated properly) and the 3rd reason has to be the presence of smokeless powder that doesn't belong down that particular bore, which was built for blackpowder & substitutes-only.

The 4th most common (these are all my opinion BTW) are loading pellets & bullet with too much force on the ramrod, thus crushing 1-2 pellets and leaving a air pocket gap that produces much higher bore pressure. But for the barrel to explode, the shooter usually has a long history of unknowingly doing this, thus slowly weakening the intergrity of the barrel near the breechplug.

If you aren't bring the correct tools to pull a 2nd bullet and powder charge that was loaded by mistake, then be sure to stay home that day and forget about shooting that ML at the range.