Need A Little Help!

[Boreal]

I picked up a NIB Savage 10ML-II a couple of weeks ago on Gunbroker. I researched all the recommend loads and settled on 42 grs of accurate 5744, MMP black sabots, 300 gr Hornady XTP (.452). I mounted a Leupold VX-31 scope in 3.5-10x40 on it. Bore sighted it than headed to the range to sight it in.
I put one of the bullets in the MMP sabot and noticed that the sabot "flared" when I pushed it down. I placed on top of the barrel and it looked like no way was that going to down. So I put the bullet in the Hornady red sabot that came with the bullets. It didn't bulge or flare so I loaded it and sighted in with the reds.
The gun shot fine and sighted in perfectly. I took it hunting last week but didn't get any shots. I took it to the range again yesterday. When I pulled the trigger the gun didn't fire. My first thought was that I didn't load it but I knew that I had. The weird thing was that it didn't sound like the primer fired. I pulled back the bolt and sure enough the primer had fired.
At home I broke the gun down. I removed the breech plug shined a light down the barrel from the muzzle. No light at the breech so I knew I loaded it. I dumped the powder out of the breech end and it looked like less then I put in but i couldn't be sure. I took my bench rod and pushed out my sabot and bullet and there was a the sabot but no bullet!
So I think what happened is the red sabot was able to move too easily down the barrel ahead of all the powder burning so the powder fizzled and went out. The bullet exited the barrel ahead of the sabot and plopped on the ground somewhere unseen. By the sabot staying in the barrel, it blocked any noise or smoke from the primer and the minute bit of powder that may have burned.
I cleaned the gun completely and had decided to only use the black MMP sabots. I figured I have to be more forceful when loading them. Well, i tried to load the gun today and the bullet/sabot went about half way into the muzzle and stuck! I couldn't budge it. I took out the breech plug and put my range rod with an extender in through the breech and banged it with the palm of my hand but it wouldn't move. Finally, I grabbed the bullet in my vise, twisted the rifle and it came out.
So what do you guys think? Is it reasonable to think that my misfire occured this way? Why am I not able to load Savage recommended load into my gun? I plan on calling MMP next week to see what they say too.
I tried to post this in "smokeless muzzleloading" but I'm not permitted to post there.

 

[LarryBud]

I appears ( just a guess ) that the load moved off the charge while you were hunting with the rifle. ALWAYS have a witness mark on your ram rod and check it frequently.

It also appears that you haven't found the right bullet sabot combo for your rifle. You want firm pressure on the sabot all the way down to the charge. Smokeless is a serious game. Good luck working this out a error on the side of caution and always check you load location after moving about.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

How hard(easy) was it when you loaded that Hornady with the red sabot? I agree that the bullet probably moved off the load. But, was it loose or did the gun get bumped or some kind of jarring during travel? You said it shot well so maybe it did get bumped.

 

[ShawnT]

Do you use a short starter to start the bullet/sabot though the muzzle or are you just starting them by thumb pressure?

 

[GM54-120]

What 209 primer did you use?

The red SST sabot is normally much too loose for the Savage. If the MMP short black is too tight i would try the Harvester "smooth" black short next.

 

[Boreal]

The reds loaded about the same as powerbelts in my Omega.
I use a short starter to load. I forced the sabot in about 3/4 of the length which left about half the bullet sticking out of the barrell.
Primers are Winchester 209.

 

[GM54-120]

Regular Win209s are normally fine. The Win209 T7 primers are not. Depending on the powder im using its either a Win209 or Fed209A. Both will work fine but the Feds might be really tight in a new plug.

You need more loading resistance than "Powerbelt type" loading pressure. Around 40lbs or so is good. HPH-12 is the next step down in size from the MMP short black. Then either HPH-24 or Harvester smooth blacks. You dont want the crushribs unless using .458 bullets in the Savage (usually).

Since this is in the regular section we need to leave powders out of the responses but there far better choices if you are using a 300gr bullet. Once we get your posting privileges straightened out we can address that in the SML section.

2 other things that are important.
The Savage breach plug flash channel is 5/32. Use a 5/32 bit to remove carbon from the flash CHANNEL.
Make very sure the bolt handle is all the way down in the fire position. If not you will get a light strike on the primer.

 

[Boreal]

Thanks for the replies.

The primers are standard Win209s. I'll order up a bag of HPH-12s and some HPH-24s as well. The flash hole in the vent liner was clear. I know one of the big benefits of these rifles was supposed to be that you don't have to clean them often but I enjoy cleaning my guns after I shoot them. It's all part of the process.

I had taken the gun apart and wanted to shoot it again, paying particular attention to ease of loading and seating pressure. Still using the red Hornady sabots the loading is very easy. In fact I can do it easily with one hand. I had no way of measuring seating pressure, I just tried to be consistent. I was shooting at 100 yards. This is the final target I shot. I shot the three shot cloverleaf than adjusted the scope 6 clicks down and 6 clicks right. Fourth shot was the bull.

 

[GM54-120]

Not flash HOLE...you need to keep the flash CHANNEL clean. The vent liner in the Savage is your flash hole and it only grows in size. The vent should be replaced about the time they reach .036".

5744 is a very dirty powder for smokeless and velocity is poor. The bright side is its easy to use and easy to ignite so if you have ignition issues something is really wrong. Such as sabots are way too loose and/or the flash CHANNEL is filling up with carbon.

Try Reloder7 with 300gr ONLY. Its also double based and a much better choice for 300gr bullets. Its cheap and easier on sabots. You do need more of it than 5744 because its much slower burning. 63gr of Reloder7 and a 300gr is a great load for many people. That load is still pretty far from max too. You will get a around 200fps+ more velocity than your 5744 load and less peak pressure. I would only use it with a tighter sabot though.

 

[Boreal]

Got it! I'll try the Reloder7 too. Thank you

 

[GM54-120]

One of the things i like about Reloder7 is normally its pretty cheap and normally easy to find too. My personal favorite for 300gr bullets is N120 but its stupid expensive and goes through periods of being hard to find. About 58gr of N120 will equal or beat 63gr of Reloder7 in fps. Its super clean though.

5744 is just a dog in speed. Bullets like the Sierra or Hornady 458 300gr JHPs though are very well matched to its speed. Personally i really like the Sierra 458 300gr FNHP for milder loads.