New with a few questions

[IdahoD]

Make a very long story short, my dad spent 21 days in the hospital and had 2 surgeries this summer so I took care of my parents place all summer and am still doing so. I do it happily, it's a huge property but I enjoy the work, and my parents have been nothing but good to me and my family. To say thank you, my parents bought me a muzzleloader, which I've always wanted. Funds were tight, but they insisted, and I found the CVA Wolf Northwest (I live in Idaho so that model is essential). Some like this model, some don't, it's what they could afford and I actually quite like shooting it. This rifle will actually pull double duty for me. I live in an area that has a short range weapons season, which unresticts muzzleloaders. So scopes, sabots, pellet powder, etc. is totally legal for whitetails during that season. I have hunted and killed 2 deer with my grandpa's muzzleloader during the short range season but he just handed me some speed loaders after I shot it and loaded it a few times and off I went. He had already dialed in the loads. That's the extent of my knowledge. Then I have the normal Idaho regulations on muzzleloader specific hunts.
This same grandpa, when he found out I just got a muzzleloader, hooked me up with a bunch of stuff he had laying around(aren't grandpas great?!). He gave me: a bottle of Select pyrodex from Hodgdon, American Pioneer Powder, and APP Jim Shockey Gold FFFG (my owners manual says not to shoot FFFG). He also gave me some speed loaders, a bunch of Triple 7 pellets, primers, 30 powerbelt 295 gr. lead bullets, 13 powerbelt copper ballistic tips, 12 maxi hunter conicals, and a few other things. So I'm set...I think. I also have some primers, Triple 7 loose powder, and some other odds and ends that I bought when I got the gun.

So here's a few questions I had:

I put a 4 power scope on it that I had laying around and went to dial it in for the upcoming short range season. I dropped a 2 pellets down the barrel (the guy at the shop said it would shoot them just fine) finished loading and could not get the pellets to burn at all. Snapped 4 caps on it with nothing. I didn't know what to do, so I unscrewed the breach plug and pushed it out with the ram rod. Any reason why they didn't burn? Will they not work in that rifle? I loaded loose powder in it after that and it shot great. Have shot pellets before with grandpas inline muzzleloader with musket caps with no problems.

What powder do you guys like out of the stuff I have? Why cant I use FFFG in my rifle? Have only shot the triple 7 I bought, haven't had a chance to shoot any of the stuff my grandpa gave me yet.

I've read all the negative reviews on powerbelts, so I'm hesitant on elk, but would I be in bad shape to use them on a whitetail? Are they very accurate past 100 or 150 yards? I've got a ton of them, so I'd like to use them. Are the copper any better? How about those maxi hunters? I plan on buying some better conicals for elk season, if I don't get one with an arrow in the next 2 weeks. Owners manual also says no conicals over 400 grains, any reason why?

I'm super excited for this new project, it'll also open up a lot of new hunts for me here in Idaho. Any help would be great. Sorry my first post is a freaking novel.

 

[ShawnT]

Welcome to the site.

I don't know Idaho laws so will let a couple of the other member's here comment. There are a couple that live there, one if a Moderator for the site, "Sabotloader". If your NW edition Wolf has the #11 Nipple, that is probably why the Pellets don't fire as they usually are not hot enough. What cap are you using? The Pyrodex Select is a 2F equivalent and should work just fine. I am guessing the 777 you bought was also 2F and that is good too. There are a lot of guys that shoot 3F powders as they are finer and ignite a little easier. There is nothing wrong with the CVA Wolf rifle. While it is CVA's entry level rifle they shoot very well. My Nephew has one and it shoots great. He does use 209 primer ignition in his, he is in Ohio.

If it were me I would use the Loose powder over Pellets. There are several down sides to pellets. I personally would loose the Power belts and go with a Sabot and Pistol bullet. There are just lots of better options than power belts and cheaper too. If you shoot the Power belts do not load them over hot charges, keep the charge low. Seems if they are pushed very hard they can fragment on impact. If you can use sabots and Pistol bullets in your area try a Black 50 X 45 Harvester Crushrib sabot with a .452 (45cal) Hornady 300 grain XTP and start with 90 grains of the loose powder and work up. I would bet that rifle will shoot good between 90 and 110 grains of loose with the XTP. I would also stick to a Mag style cap, such as the CCI M, Remington, or the RWS. I don't have much experience with conicals so will defer to those that do for them.

If you have questions ask away and you will get the answer you need from the guys here. There is a Ton of experience from all over the country here! :yeah:

 

[Bushfire]

G'day mate,
I'm in Australia and muzzleloading pretty much doesn't exist here (I don't know one other aussie that does it).

Everything I've learned is from this site so you've come to the right place.

I'm limited in what I can get, I use hornady xtp 240gn magnums and hornady fpb 300gn. The xtp are my pick, shot six deer with them, all one shot kills.

Powder wise I use alliant black MZ, love it.

Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk

 

[cayuga]

you have a NW edition CVA Wolf. Its my understanding the ignition system is #11 caps. And you said with the pellets you popped four caps and could not get ignition. It you were using #11 caps, that's your problem. Not enough fire to ignite pellets. When shooting pellets you need a 209 shotgun primer to really put the flame to them. Were you shooting shotgun primers? If so I would guess old pellets. Or the inside of the bore might have moisture. If you were shooting caps, change over to 90 grains of loose powder.

Can you shoot 3f powder in that rifle? Yes you can and it will love it. 2f or 3f will shoot just fine in the rifle. I would stay away from 4f though. 3f is a little faster in ignition then 2f and they claim 15% stronger. I don't hardy believe this anymore. Although a chronograph will make a lair out of me. There is not that much difference in velocity. So go ahead and shoot that 3f.

In your new rifle try loose powder. If you want to shoot pellets, remember ... shot gun primers. And Triple Seven is a great powder. Its a little stronger then Pyrodex, American Pioneer Powder, or Jim Shockey Gold (which is American Pioneer Powder screened twice more then App). All of them will shoot using a #11 cap just fine.

 

[GM54-120]

CVA has a policy that you can not use FFFG of any powder. Hodgdon though does list T7 FFFG and Pyro P load data for 50cals.

Dont ever tell CVA you used FFFG. They can void your warranty for using it. Two CS reps from CVA told me this but could not tell me why.

 

[GoexBlackhorn]

I'm sure they knew the answer to your question.
Really all they had to say was FFF bore pressures and velocities change and disrupt/change their Owners Manual wordings / outlines / decrees. So to keep things simple for ML users, they only choose to write literature for FF-only powder and to propose specific npowder charges and bullet grains/styles for their CVAs.

 

[GM54-120]

Yet they allow and even offer 3 pellet load data. Hodgdon however does not condone ever using a 3 pellet load.

Sorry, it makes no sense. You can not tell me one is ok and the other is not when the one that is ok makes more peak pressure.

 

[IdahoD]

Thanks for the replies everyone! Sounds like I'll just avoid the FFFG powder, I'm not heartbroken by it, have 3 other powders that will work just fine. I'll also avoid the pellets as they didn't work with the musket caps, I wouldn't have any confidence in them anyway when it came right down to it on an animal. I use RWS caps and have a tin of CCI s as well. The plan for now is that I'm going to get my rifle dialed in with the powerbelts with both my scope and open sights just to make sure I'm on paper, then I'll get some sabots for short range season and double check the zero with the scope and make minor adjustments. Then if needed (as in if I don't shoot an elk with my bow) I'll get some conicals for late muzzleloader season and shoot them with open sights and make minor adjustments (again, in Idaho for muzzleloader seasons it's loose powder, all lead bullets, open sights, ignition open to elements, and no 209 primers). I thought this would allow me to use the powerbelts and not hunt with them, as I've been advised not to do, and use fewer of the sabots or conicals for sighting in. Am I way off base with this thought? Maybe I'm just cheap! I know I'll have to make a few adjustments with each load, but hopefully that streamlines the process. Let me know if that is a terrible idea. I'm all ears! Any advice on conicals? I still find it weird that I cant shoot one over 400 grains.

So what's the deal with the clean bore and fouled bore? No way do I want to leave my gun with a bunch of gunk in it during the season, so does it make a ton of difference? Seems weird to me, but this whole thing is WAY more in depth than I could have ever imagined! I thought it was a load and go kind of deal, not so I guess. But that makes it fun. I like tinkering with my archery equipment too.

 

[Bushfire]

Re: RE: Re: New with a few questions

Thanks for the replies everyone! Sounds like I'll just avoid the FFFG powder, I'm not heartbroken by it, have 3 other powders that will work just fine. I'll also avoid the pellets as they didn't work with the musket caps, I wouldn't have any confidence in them anyway when it came right down to it on an animal. I use RWS caps and have a tin of CCI s as well. The plan for now is that I'm going to get my rifle dialed in with the powerbelts with both my scope and open sights just to make sure I'm on paper, then I'll get some sabots for short range season and double check the zero with the scope and make minor adjustments. Then if needed (as in if I don't shoot an elk with my bow) I'll get some conicals for late muzzleloader season and shoot them with open sights and make minor adjustments (again, in Idaho for muzzleloader seasons it's loose powder, all lead bullets, open sights, ignition open to elements, and no 209 primers). I thought this would allow me to use the powerbelts and not hunt with them, as I've been advised not to do, and use fewer of the sabots or conicals for sighting in. Am I way off base with this thought? Maybe I'm just cheap! I know I'll have to make a few adjustments with each load, but hopefully that streamlines the process. Let me know if that is a terrible idea. I'm all ears! Any advice on conicals? I still find it weird that I cant shoot one over 400 grains.

So what's the deal with the clean bore and fouled bore? No way do I want to leave my gun with a bunch of gunk in it during the season, so does it make a ton of difference? Seems weird to me, but this whole thing is WAY more in depth than I could have ever imagined! I thought it was a load and go kind of deal, not so I guess. But that makes it fun. I like tinkering with my archery equipment too.

Coming from a centrefire and rimfire background I had no idea what I was getting into with blackpowder but yes they are completely different.

Just shooting, I've heard of people not being able to load a second shot without swabbing between shots. I can get three before it starts getting tight, haven't pushed it passed that.
Blackpowder is super corrosive compared to smokeless. It's not a big deal though, just give it a good scrub with some hot soapy water run some patches through it till it comes out nice and clean. Then I just run a well oiled patch through it and oil the other parts of the gun and she's right to sit in the cabinet for a while.

I think like anything, everyone has to find their own routine and what works for them.

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[IdahoD]

Just a quick update. Got the scope mounted and sighted in for the short range weapon season. Been shooting it a bit between rifle hunts. Shot some powerbelts through the muzzleloader at 75 yards and this is what I came up with

The flyer on the top wasn't even my clean bore shot, don't know what happened there. The clean bore shot is one of the bottom shots in the group. So it looks it shot with the rest of the crew. Just did a few clicks up on my scope and shot again with good results. Also shot at 125 yards and have a good feel for the holdover. Toned the powder back to 87 grains (don't ask my why, I'm sure 90 is fine) and it seemed like it shot a little nicer and burned the powder more completely, im sure its all in my head but it obviously groups fine.

Honestly I may just roll with the powerbelts. Those shots are a mix of the aero lites and the lead ones. They shoot great.

Been reading here a lot and I'm excited to get after them this week!





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[sabotloader]

IdahoD

Where are you located in Idaho? - probably southern Idaho but I thought I would ask I am in Moscow

 

[IdahoD]

Re: RE: Re: New with a few questions

IdahoD

Where are you located in Idaho? - probably southern Idaho but I thought I would ask I am in Moscow

Yeah I'm in southeast Idaho. Outside of Rexburg.

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[sabotloader]

Re: RE: Re: New with a few questions

IdahoD

Where are you located in Idaho? - probably southern Idaho but I thought I would ask I am in Moscow

Yeah I'm in southeast Idaho. Outside of Rexburg.

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Shoot! that is tad far to drive...

 

[sabotloader]

Re: RE: Re: New with a few questions

IdahoD

Where are you located in Idaho? - probably southern Idaho but I thought I would ask I am in Moscow

Yeah I'm in southeast Idaho. Outside of Rexburg.

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Shoot! that is tad far to drive in a day

 

[IdahoD]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: New with a few questions

IdahoD

Where are you located in Idaho? - probably southern Idaho but I thought I would ask I am in Moscow

Yeah I'm in southeast Idaho. Outside of Rexburg.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Shoot! that is tad far to drive...

Yeah that is a bit of a drive. Heck I'd come up there and go whitetail hunting, you guys have way more up there than we do down here.

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[Dave C]

Most of your questions have already been answered. I'll chime in on the PB's though. A lot of guys like to bash on the PB's and some of it may be warranted but I will say that they sure shot tight groups for me as well. I did use them to kill an elk but he seemed to travel a long ways despite a good hit in the vitals. I never recovered the bullet so I don't know whether it fragmented or how much penetration I got. That being said, I would not have a problem shooting them for whitetails or even mulies.

 

[GoexBlackhorn]

I use the top-3 ML projectiles found in hunting woods today...... none other.
......Roundballs, XTPs and Powerbelts.

I discontinued using all others. These three have been the annual top-3 for close to 20 years now.

 

[sabotloader]

Most of your questions have already been answered. I'll chime in on the PB's though. A lot of guys like to bash on the PB's and some of it may be warranted but I will say that they sure shot tight groups for me as well. I did use them to kill an elk but he seemed to travel a long ways despite a good hit in the vitals. I never recovered the bullet so I don't know whether it fragmented or how much penetration I got. That being said, I would not have a problem shooting them for whitetails or even mulies.

When you get around to choosing a projectile - let me know. As you know our old time ML rules really strap you in what you can use. Myself, I hunt all season with a ML now. I am so dang old I really can not go or get to the good elk country around here.

So I have set my ML up to be a dual threat!

This is the rifle during ML season - shooting Bull Shop Lead conicals. I have a NECG peep sight mounted on a Warne Weaver style scope base. Then during the rifle season I remove the Quick Detach peep and install a scope.



And this is the rifle during the regular rifle season - shooting modern Lehigh or Lehigh/Bloodline bullets in a sabot.