Nitride Barrels
- Thread starter SuperKirby
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Appears to be in context to me .
Did you read this one?
http://namlhunt.com/ml-sabot-failure.html
The Traditions Nitride could be a different process or not as well done as the CVA and the Knight? Could have been something going on with the barrel itself. More likely was the warm weather shooting in July. Back Nitrided barrel will attract sunlight heat as well.
Been there and done all that myself.
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Nitride is done in a molten salt bath at around 1100 deg F. It does not alter any dimensions. The surface is transformed into compound layers about .002" deep. It offers superior corrosion resistance in chromemoly steel and even better with 416 stainless in the case of barrels. 17-4 stainless in the H900 condition will experience core softening at the bath temperature, so I avoid it on certain parts, but then again, 17-4 does not need corrosion protection in a muzzleloader.
It is proven to reduce friction over an uncoated barrel. The surface of the barrel prior to nitride will depict the outcome, inside and out.
Melonite QPQ is the more specific process name, the QPQ means Quench Polish Quench. NCT in Kennebunk ME does this for us and it involves some special bore polishing.
I've seen zero evidence of sabot damage, this makes zero sense and in-fact I'd say the opposite is true. I've never seen the plastic from a sabot stick or rub off onto a nitrided barrel, but we use barrels with a quality finish to start.
I owe our growing success to nitrided barrels and the simple fact they handle abuse from not cleaning, forgetting to clean and whatever neglect they take from harsh weather and powder residue. IMO nitride is the only way to go on any barrel for many reasons. If you don't like black on the outside, simply apply a coating over it. Some prep like blasting may be required prior. We have done hydro-graphics over top after blasting and it holds on without a problem.
It is proven to reduce friction over an uncoated barrel. The surface of the barrel prior to nitride will depict the outcome, inside and out.
Melonite QPQ is the more specific process name, the QPQ means Quench Polish Quench. NCT in Kennebunk ME does this for us and it involves some special bore polishing.
I've seen zero evidence of sabot damage, this makes zero sense and in-fact I'd say the opposite is true. I've never seen the plastic from a sabot stick or rub off onto a nitrided barrel, but we use barrels with a quality finish to start.
I owe our growing success to nitrided barrels and the simple fact they handle abuse from not cleaning, forgetting to clean and whatever neglect they take from harsh weather and powder residue. IMO nitride is the only way to go on any barrel for many reasons. If you don't like black on the outside, simply apply a coating over it. Some prep like blasting may be required prior. We have done hydro-graphics over top after blasting and it holds on without a problem.
Wow , thanks for your input . Does it impart any surface hardening for chrome moly or 416 like a gas nitried process does ??
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I do not believe that it is possible for a nitried barrel to damage any sabot.
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There is another similarity in his blown sabots. They are Crushribs. You need a pretty tight bore to need a 45cal CR. The regular light blues were very popular with MLII conversions to 45cal but even those were considered a tad loose in some barrels like the McGowens or 45/70 conversions. The LBCR could possibly make it even worse. From what ive heard so far the Paramount bore is not exactly real tight.
Other than corrosion resistance ive never been convinced nitride was either good or bad in bore. I would imagine if the bore is not smooth enough before the treatment the harder surface will take even longer to smooth out a bit?
Other than corrosion resistance ive never been convinced nitride was either good or bad in bore. I would imagine if the bore is not smooth enough before the treatment the harder surface will take even longer to smooth out a bit?
Good question . I know all my production barrels get slicked up before use . Started this years ago . Even the 410 super 91 White had a rough spot mid barrel i found and removed (wilson barrel) . Made a big difference !!! And it was used.......so much for lead fire lapped !!! Lol......
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We shoot .45 crush ribs, they are blue as well as the smooth .45 Harvesters. I've never seen one blow apart, even under decent loads of smokeless. The blue ones in the photo that are not blown apart I assume are Harvester .45's ?
Tight is really only relative to the bullet diameter. My McGowen barrels generally run .4505", I've never seen .451" in random inspection.
Anyways, there have been some studies on QPQ's benefits in other barrels, like AR's that have high volumes of rounds put through them. The barrel life is extended quite a bit. Probably due to the hardness of nitride which is usually over RC65. Copper is highly abrasive. Machining it with carbide tools, the tools wear rapidly so we use diamond coated tools. Nitride seem's to be hard enough to withstand the abrasiveness of copper. You'll be hard pressed to find and bad reason to apply nitride to a barrel bore. Possibly another benefit, a barrel with a honed finish and nitride would likely not become fouled with copper.
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It may slow throat erosion but if it was all that then US milspec would call for nitride. If you want hard steel for barrels go with 4150 or LW50 for SS. Aside from true milspec barrels that is some of the best going. Its just more costly to manufacture. Other than directly from Lothar finding a LW50 barrel is uncommon and you see few companies making 4150 barrels for anything other than "black rifles".
Back in the day when McGowen was the 2nd choice to Pacnor for converting MLII 50s to 45s, it was pretty common for their barrels to hover around .451 or slightly over. Many guys on the SML oriented board noticed this and knurling bullets up for a tighter fit was common. It was far less common for guys with Pacnor barrels. Mine is as close to .450 on the lands as i can measure. I cant remember blowing a HLB sabot even with loads moving around 2800fps.
Ive blown several Green Crushribs and 50x40 Blue Crushribs when tinkering with hot smoker loads. I dont think ive blown a single Harvester black smooth sabot even with smokeless loads making well over 32kpsi.
Back in the day when McGowen was the 2nd choice to Pacnor for converting MLII 50s to 45s, it was pretty common for their barrels to hover around .451 or slightly over. Many guys on the SML oriented board noticed this and knurling bullets up for a tighter fit was common. It was far less common for guys with Pacnor barrels. Mine is as close to .450 on the lands as i can measure. I cant remember blowing a HLB sabot even with loads moving around 2800fps.
Ive blown several Green Crushribs and 50x40 Blue Crushribs when tinkering with hot smoker loads. I dont think ive blown a single Harvester black smooth sabot even with smokeless loads making well over 32kpsi.
I have no idea what they run now as it's probably been 4 years since I've dealt with a McGowen barrel. But back when I was going through a lot of them, under .451 was the exception. Some were so loose even a .452 needed knurled up to shoot sabotless.
