On the hunt for a rifle again

[Hylander]

Well,
As you know I picked up a T/C Hawken a couple weeks ago.
Well I sold it today  :face: Just wasn't feeling it and the buyer wanted it more than me.
One thing that I did not like about the T/C was the fact that the grooves are so shallow, only .005 deep
So a very tight fitting ball and patch is required for best accuracy and my hands are in pain 24-7 so pounding a
tight fitting ball down the tube is painful.
So I am on the look out for the next rifle.
Had a line on an older GPR, but the person does not get back with me.
The Traditions kit is looking better and better to me, the grooves are .010 deep, twice as much as the T/C.

 

[exMember]

A good wack normally gets them started. I use a .020 patch and a 490 round ball in all my traditions, except the pistols.

I had a couple of the TC hawken rifles and never did fancy them due to their barrels. I grunted down a powerbelt one day, took 2 shots and listed it for sale the same day lol. Just wasn't going to deal with that tight mess.

 

[Randy Johnson]

You need to discover the fun of smoothbores. No short starter needed and good for anything from quail to moose. If, like me, you aren't much for hunting, they are a lot of fun on gongs and paper too.

 

[strong eagle]

they may be fun to shoot but in this country the deer shots are 180 yards to 220 yards on the average. a sooth bore wouldnt cut it. my son did a 220 yard shot with a mmp sabot and a 300 grain swagged pure lead bullet. 130 grains of powder. hit spot on with a one and thirty two twist barrel. the smooth bores would work in the river bottoms and a stand here but that would greatly limit my sons hunting range. i have given a smooth bore a lot of thought. if you could design a bullet that looked like this i bet they would go long range spot on. a round ball bore size with slanted fins attached to the back of it to spin it as it left the barrel. it may shoot long distances very very well. ill never find out as i cant go after ever thing ive ever dreamed up.

 

[Buck Conner1]

i have given a smooth bore a lot of thought. if you could design a bullet that looked like this i bet they would go long range spot on. a round ball bore size with slanted fins attached to the back of it to spin it as it left the barrel. it may shoot long distances very very well. ill never find out as i cant go after ever thing ive ever dreamed up.

Talk to Doc White he has smoothbores shooting concials at long distances for sale. If he has sold the last one he'll just build you what you want. See: http://whitemuzzleloading.com/on-sale/

 

[Hylander]

What do you all think of this ?

Investarms Hawken

 

[Hanshi]

The Traditions barrels are very good barrels.  Rifling grooves are just about right and much like my GM bores.  I've killed a good many deer & squirrels with Traditions, Pedersoli and CVA rifles and have no complaints whatsoever.

 

[Hanshi]

Oh!  And it's worth mentioning that my US M1841 Mississippi rifle has grooves about .006", or maybe a .001" more and is accurate as all get out with prb.

 

[burlesontom]

One thing that I did not like about the T/C was the fact that the grooves are so shallow, only .005 deep
So a very tight fitting ball and patch is required for best accuracy and my hands are in pain 24-7 so pounding a
tight fitting ball down the tube is painful.

 According to the Lyman Black Powder manual you don't have to use a ball and patch so tight you have to pound it down the bore. It should start with just a little resistance and then slide down smoothly. The ball and patch get fitted to the bore when the rifle fires and the ball or bullet foreshortens and fills the bore. I don't pound the balls on any of my rifles including the TC guns I have owned and all shot with all the accuracy I needed. They were more accurate than I am.

In TC guns I have owned a 36 caliber Seneca, two 50 caliber Hawkens. two 50 caliber Renegades and a 54 caliber Renegade. I sure wish I had that Seneca and 54 Renegade back.

I shot one deer with a 50 caliber Traditions Springfield Hawken and I recovered the ball. The back of the ball had the pattern of the patch on it just like the Lyman manual said it should. You should have kept the TC and used a different ball or patch size.

 

[Hylander]

I tried multiple ball and patch sizes, nothing gave me the accuracy I want without a tight fit.
I have also owned T/C Hawkens before with same results.
They are fine rifles but I'm looking for better accuracy without such a tight fit.
My Lyman GPR's gave me better accuracy without going so tight.

 

[Hanshi]

I use tight prb in my rifles for a number of reasons.  When I say "tight" I don't mean they have to be pounded in.  I have severe ra in my hands and can't pound or create much in the way of force; so any load I use has to be such that it is safe to load with the wood, underbarrel rod.  I've polished the crowns of most of my rifles, and that makes a difference.  With whatever combo I'm using, I want at least "some" patch compression in the grooves.  Most loads shooters use don't necessarily give that compression.  But often, those loads are accurate, anyway.  I usually check my calculator and determine the amount of compression with various loads.  But as long as there is "some" compression, I'm satisfied.

 

[burlesontom]

I understand. You have got to get what works for your situation. I have a El Cheapo Traditions Springfield Hawken I bought as a kit a couple of decades ago from Bass Pro for $105 for the kit. Its marked as a 1/66 twist. It has the smoothest barrel of any BP gun I have ever looked at and the grooves look to be between .008 and .010 deep. And its a shooter. I mean it will stack ball after ball at 65 yards. And I have never touched the sights. Just drove them in till they looked centered and they have been perfect. I killed my first BP deer with that gun.

I have owned several CVA/Traditions guns and everyone of them have been good shooting rifles. Most here who have custom or semi custom guns wouldn't look twice at one of these guns but I do. I have bought several from pawn shops. Some were poorly put together kit guns I went through and fixed. But all shot fine.

Good luck on your hunt for a new rifle.

 

[Hanshi]

Burlesontom, I've owned a lot of so-called cheapo guns.  I've killed deer, squirrel and bobcat with them and they were very fine shooters, often amazingly so.  I've found Traditions and CVA rifles to be as accurate as anything I've shot.  I still have one I bought some 52-53 years ago.

 

[burlesontom]

Hi Hanshi. I have my eye on a 45 caliber traditions Kentucky rifle brand new for $375 with free shipping. You and I have talked about 45 caliber guns and how much we like them. I have just got to decide if I really need another BP rifle. I have a 45, 54 and two 50 cals now so its not like I don't have a gun to shoot. I know what the OP is talking about when he says he is on the hunt for a new boomer gun.

I mentioned the Pedersoli 45 caliber Scout Carbine in another thread but don't know if I want to spend the $750 Dixie wants for one. Dang it! Don't I have grand problems? :evil:

 

[Hanshi]

Hi Hanshi. I have my eye on a 45 caliber traditions Kentucky rifle brand new for $375 with free shipping. You and I have talked about 45 caliber guns and how much we like them. I have just got to decide if I really need another BP rifle. I have a 45, 54 and two 50 cals now so its not like I don't have a gun to shoot. I know what the OP is talking about when he says he is on the hunt for a new boomer gun.

I mentioned the Pedersoli 45 caliber Scout Carbine in another thread but don't know if I want to spend the $750 Dixie wants for one. Dang it! Don't I have grand problems? :evil:

"Need" has nothing to do with it; "want" is what it's all about. :2 cents:

The .45 Kentucky sounds like the better deal.  Cap or flint?

 

[burlesontom]

I am well aquainted with "Want". Want is why I own around 80 firearms now. :affraid:

Both are cap fired guns. Flinters are cool but I just prefer caplocks.

 

[Hylander]

Well I brought home a Lyman 50cal. GPR today.
This is the one from my coworker I mentioned in another thread.
After giving it back to her, she said she was probably going to toss it.
Well I could not let that happen so I made her an offer and she accepted.
I know it probably needs a new barrel, so I will keep my eyes open.
I will start a new thread as I want to make this thing better.

Also, my Hunt still continues, but has shifted to looking to building one from a custom maker.

 

[exMember]

No!! Just have hot bore it out buddy!!

 

[Hylander]

No!! Just have hot bore it out buddy!!

Who's Hot?

:Questuon:

 

[exMember]

Hoyt. My bad, I was on my tablet that has spell check turned on.