Opinions on Range Result

[VENISONEATR]

The last time I tested 5744 and 250 gr. Horn SST's I was shooting under 1.5" groups @ 100 yds. This happened in late Aug. early Sept. Range temps were in the mid 80's. I tested the same load today. Same powder lot, same primer pack. I was using the supplied sabot that comes with the SST's. Range temps today were in the 60's and fairly breezy. I couldn't shoot under 3" today to save my life.
I would guesstimate wind gusts to 15 mph. Groups appeared to be drifting right as a result of the wind. I'm wondering if the wind was suspect or the 20 deg. temp deviation? Any opinions...???
I would be certain it was the wind if every flyer went right. But I'd have two shots drift right and then one 2" to the left. I will admit I have a tendency when presented with a range quandry to limit my cooling time
One more question... I have a range rod that utilizes the "rat" bullet seater. Well I forgot it today and was forced to use the power rod. It's the only variable that was different in my loading procedure.
Thanks in advance... It's too late in the game to change loads and this one is still "minute of deer" so that's what I'm going with.

 

[Ron S]

I use the RAT. Infact it did improve my groups,and gave me alot more consistancy(eliminated the flyers). I cut a standard rod down,so I can use it while hunting on the gun. It was prouably the best bang for the buck I've spent on a muzzle loader. Ron S

 

[Grouse]

Are you using the supplied sabots with the SST'S?

 

[Doohan]

Funny... I just had the same experience with both my guns! 42gr of N110 and 250 shockwaves... 3" all day..

Came home and cleaned the heck out of both my guns, checked bases, tightened rings, etc... have yet to go back to the range.

:huh?:

 

[Grouse]

Funny... I just had the same experience with both my guns! 42gr of N110 and 250 shockwaves... 3" all day..

Came home and cleaned the heck out of both my guns, checked bases, tightened rings, etc... have yet to go back to the range.

:huh?:

When is the last time you guy's changed your vent-liners?

 

[typical10]

I have shot great groups at all temps, such as yourself however without consistancy like you mentioned, after almost 5 years with the ml2, and thousands of shots, the real consitancy comes from temps at 45 degrees and colder. :idea: This is my story, and I'm sticking with it :!:

 

[VENISONEATR]

Tom... Brand new RW vent liner. Today I let the gun cool for 20 min. came back and fired 2 shots 5 min aprt. First shot was dead center 2" high @ 100 yds. Second shot was 1" high and also dead center. I put the gun away and won't touch it until the season. Right now it's down in my gun room with a small candle lightly burning near it and I sprinkled rose petals arounsd the trigger assembly. When I go into the room I try and not make direct eye contact with it.

 

[RAF]

IMO it may not be the rifle, powder charge/bullet combo,sabot or primer. It might be the shooter. No offence but my experience is that I have good days and bad days. Not just with the 10ML but with C.F. rifles. I have a 22-250 and on some days can drive tacks and the next, not even close. I have complete faith in all my rifles and their ability, but on some days I just can't shoot. When that happens the first variable I consider is me. I don't touch anything. I back another day and try again. This has worked for me.

 

[Grouse]

Right now it's down in my gun room with a small candle lightly burning near it and I sprinkled rose petals arounsd the trigger assembly. When I go into the room I try and not make direct eye contact with it.

rayer: :lol: :lol:

 

[JD]

I have complete faith in all my rifles and their ability, but on some days I just can't shoot. When that happens the first variable I consider is me. I don't touch anything. I back another day and try again. This has worked for me.

I agree with RAF , but you also need to keep an eye on your breech plugs and vent liners.

 

[Doohan]

New plug and ventliner in both at the range..

Im guessing they were dirty guns???? cleaned the heck out of em..

 

[dwhunter]

I have complete faith in all my rifles and their ability, but on some days I just can't shoot. When that happens the first variable I consider is me. I don't touch anything. I back another day and try again. This has worked for me.

I agree with RAF , but you also need to keep an eye on your breech plugs and vent liners.

Absolutely keep a eye on the breechplug and vent liner. :wink:

 

[Ron S]

RAF hit the nail on the head! It's hard to judge your load results by one session at the range. I've shot some loads the first time around,and was excited by the results,only to shoot it later and find that the first go-around was a fluke! Sometimes I think we expect too much out of a muzzle loader. I know my savage isn't going to kick my 22-250 bench guns butt. I also know that under most hunting conditions my Savage will knock the snot out of almost any deer shot at from 20-200yds. That's what I got it for! It takes alot of range time to get consistant results(more time than I usually have). But that's the fun of it! It get's you out and shooting the gun. As far as getting consistant results go,sometimes I'm the windshield,and sometimes I'm The bug. Ron

 

[Rifleman]

Jim you answered your own question but I don't think you know it. The first day you said that maybe you did not allow enough cooling time, the second day you had a cold gun and only fired two shots. Well I have done this time and again. Barrel cooling time is what got you. I dont believe for one second that one day I can shot sub moa and the next the best I can do is 3 moa. Someone who is older with eyesight problems or someone with a little sugar problem I can buy that, but I can honestly say I don't have that problem. The barrel cooling time with the Savage is a bigger consideration then most of us realize and there is no doubt in my mind that lack of sufficient time between shots is what got you, nothing else.

 

[RAF]

R-man, you should live up here in Saskatchewan. Barrel cooling time isn't an issue in the spring or fall

 

[Rifleman]

I bet not Raf, but I think I will stay down here in the Indiana tropic zone. :lol:

 

[RAF]

Understandable 8)

 

[VENISONEATR]

Thanks for the replies guys! RAF I definetly would suspect the shooter if the other 2 guns I was shooting that day were off as well. But they grouped great with their respective pet loads.
Ron S thanks for pointing that out. You are right a couple of groups on a windy day doesn't warrant load dismissal and thank you for reminding me of that. It's just that there are few feelings I hate more than leaving the range and things didn't go as planned... especially right before the season.
Dwight you truly are a wise man... I have decided that in order to maximize my limited range time I am going to retire at the ripe old age of 38. It really is the only way to allow for proper load development. All kidding aside, the range I shoot at has a target change evey half hour. So let's say 10 min between shots, this allows 2 "three shot group" load tests every hour. To make matters worse the bench I shoot off of is designated for muzzleloaders ONLY. So you can't even shoot other stuff while you are waiting for your gun to cool. Unless they are MLer's of course.
I think after the season, when temps are always cool, and the honey-do-list is much shorter it will be easier for load development.
Then I'll be wondering if a group that shot good at 25 deg. will shoot good at 65 deg. ???? Gosh I love this hobby

 

[MCee67]

Another easy way to eliminate the waiting time between shots, Just buy another MLII and alternate every other shot. :lol: :lol:

 

[jims]

I can often get my first two shots to touch and then the third is close but not touching. Often I have not waited long enough for the third shot, I get too impatient and the barrel is to warm yet. That only is a problem on the bench, in the field one shot has all it has ever taken.