Out with the old

[ENCORE50A]

Luke sent me this photo after drilling out the breech plug from my BP Xpress. That BP was installed with a lot of Nickle Anti-Seize and still required drilling and an ez-out.
Be like a new rifle soon

 

[10gaugemag]

New to the in-line game but exactly how did that happen?


Forget to clean and put away or shoot too much before cleaning?

 

[Lee 9]

Were you using T7?

 

[Idaholewis]

Holy Moly! :shock:

 

[ENCORE50A]

New to the in-line game but exactly how did that happen?

Forget to clean and put away or shoot too much before cleaning?

Nope, never ever forget to clean. I take better care of my muzzleloader/s than I do my wife, I'm ashamed to say. Ask her and she'll agree.

Its a breech plug from an Ultimate Firearms Inc. BP Xpress. What you see on it, is its covered with Permatex Nickle anti-size. From the very beginning, the UF design used a softer steel than the barrel, intentionally. They did not want people removing and reinstalling the breech plugs for fear of damaging the threads. The softer breech plug threads literally wedge themselves into the threaded barrel, making them just about all but impossible to remove. The breech plug itself is a 2 piece product. The outer plug and then the nipple is installed and some type of special welding keeps it securely in place. Although a socket fits over the nipple, the nipple in almost all cases breaks off, thus it requires drilling out, then using an ez-out to remove the remaining threads (as seen in the photo). This is common. Everyone I know who has had a UF breech plug replaced, had to have it drilled and removed like Luke removed mine. fishhawk2700 can verify.
Also remember, the UF and RUM are able to shoot extremely heavy charges, which production muzzleloaders can not.

This was the third breech plug I've had to replace shooting around 2,000 rounds. This plug was head spaced PERFECT and PRECISELY, but, it also caused me a ton of manual labor with my brass (primer carriers). I used the Nickel anti-seize when I installed the BP, hoping that it would allow me to remove the BP. However, after 8 to 12 or so shots, it was wedged in place and would not come out. Still perfect and precise, but still non-removable.

When Remington purchased the use of the UF breech plug, they did two things, they hardened it so it could be removed, and they changed the TPI. Remington had a ton of head space problems, especially with people using an unapproved propellant, BH209. They finally decided that they would no long warrant BP's if it was known that the owner used BH209.
At that point, some top shooters/builders got together and decided they'd help the Ultimate and Remington Ultimate owners. Arrowhead Sporting Goods (ASG) designed the first new breech plug for the RUM. Next came the UF rifle breech plug. RUM shooters are estatic over the change to the new breech plug. As I understand it from Luke, my BP Xpress will be the first UF Inc. rifle with the newly designed UF BP.

The BP Xpress will ignite any BP or BPS, but BH209 was removed as an approved propellant after gas cut breech plugs became an issue. I gas cut my first breech plug using BH. After the first replacement, the rifle has only seen T7 as a propellant. The new ASG breech plug will allow the use of BH209 without fear of gas cutting. The plug will now be easily removable.

Luke Horak (ASG), Levi Reed (LR Customs) and Jeff Fisk (Bestill Creations) can replace the breech plugs for either the RUM or the UF Inc. rifles.

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Excellent !

 

[ENCORE50A]

Excellent !

Thanks.
Remember Doug when I said I wanted to wait until the new stock showed up to shoot? Well I got an email from McMillan telling me it will take the full 6 months, as they have so many orders. Knowing that it'll likely be August before the new stock shows, I'll be putting the McMillan thumbhole stock back on so I can test out this new BP.
Its going to really be nice being able to get constant consistency again. Also it'll be excellent with the removable breech plug and the ability to try some of the land riding bullets Jeff shot from this Lothar Walther barrel down the road.

IMO, this is the best new conversion design on the market for .50cal rifles and to make the UF and RUM true race horses, vs being the pony that they've been. Its going to save so much time and money in the long run too. I'll give someone local a HUGE discount on a couple cases of 50/50 and 50/60 T7 :wink:

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

I wonder if that method would remove a breechplug from a White , seems like it would do the job

 

[ENCORE50A]

I wonder if that method would remove a breechplug from a White , seems like it would do the job

Not sure exactly how Luke did mine, but I've seen Ken do mine 3 times plus a couple others while I was visiting. Action has to be removed and without fail, every nipple broke. Ken then put the barrel in a lathe and drilled out the center of the BP. Once the center was drilled out, he used the e-z out to remove the remaining threads. The process doesn't take very long. I have no clue or knowledge of the Whites.

 

[Idaholewis]

New to the in-line game but exactly how did that happen?

Forget to clean and put away or shoot too much before cleaning?

What you see on it, is its covered with Permatex Nickle anti-size. From the very beginning, the UF design used a softer steel than the barrel, intentionally. They did not want people removing and reinstalling the breech plugs for fear of damaging the threads. The softer breech plug threads literally wedge themselves into the threaded barrel, making them just about all but impossible to remove.

This is common. Everyone I know who has had a UF breech plug replaced, had to have it drilled and removed like Luke removed mine.

I used https://www.permatex.com/products/lubri ... lubricant/ with heavier than normal magnum charges of T7 and might as well used glue, or JB Weld. I couldn't get it out after 9 or 10 rounds. Its all up to Luke now

I think it’s worth noting for newer folks that don’t know any better, this is NOT the Nickel Anti Seize’s Fault, Rather Remington’s Pi$$ poor Breech plug design

 

[ENCORE50A]

New to the in-line game but exactly how did that happen?

Forget to clean and put away or shoot too much before cleaning?

What you see on it, is its covered with Permatex Nickle anti-size. From the very beginning, the UF design used a softer steel than the barrel, intentionally. They did not want people removing and reinstalling the breech plugs for fear of damaging the threads. The softer breech plug threads literally wedge themselves into the threaded barrel, making them just about all but impossible to remove.

This is common. Everyone I know who has had a UF breech plug replaced, had to have it drilled and removed like Luke removed mine.

I used https://www.permatex.com/products/lubri ... lubricant/ with heavier than normal magnum charges of T7 and might as well used glue, or JB Weld. I couldn't get it out after 9 or 10 rounds. Its all up to Luke now

I think it’s worth noting for newer folks that don’t know any better, this is NOT the Nickel Anti Seize’s Fault, Rather Remington’s Pi$$ poor Breech plug design

Actually.......... the photo I posted is NOT of a Remington breech plug.

I don't own a RUM but, the Remington plug will come out with its improved design.

The BP you see in the photo, came from a very accurate Ultimate Firearms Inc. BP Xpress and it was intentionally designed to not be removable.

If done right the first time, the UF or RUM breech plugs do exactly what they're designed to do. Remington has more problems with head space because of PP brass primer carriers, which can vary .020" in head web thickness and the primer flash hole off center by as much as .010". You CAN NOT have brass primer carriers with such poor quality and expect any more from the rifle. IIRC, Bestill commented on the RUM primer carriers in another post.
The UF on the other hand, uses much higher quality brass from Starline. However, head web thickness might vary up to .005" and still can be an issue concerning head spacing. With the UF and some manual labor, it can be a perfect breech plug. But, the nitrocellulose properties of BH are well known to gas cut both breech plugs. That breech plug design has shot some witnessed, exceptional long range groups shooting the dreaded pellets from .50cal rifles, with sabots.

Luke has the fix for both rifles, and either Luke, Levi, or Jeff can make the modification. If.... Remington had their ship together, they'd contract with ASG for the new breech plug. My barreled action is scheduled to be home on the 3rd

 

[Idaholewis]

My only point was so that some new guy didn’t see this and think OH GEEZ I sure don’t wanna use that Garbage Nickel Anti seize. I know i am easily persuaded that way. The guy i spoke of in an earlier thread about using Nikal Anti seize, he pulls brand new Breech plugs from Sidelock barrels before they are ever shot just so he can thoroughly clean and then Coat the Threads liberally with that Nikal stuff, He obviously has some unique and Specific tools for pulling Sidelock BP plugs, The everyday guy will make a BAD mess out of a Sidelock BP if he tries doing it with just a vise and wrench. The cool part about the Nikal stuff he swears by, is after a year or more of steady shooting a Sidelock he has pulled the Plugs again to check for any Migration of fouling into the threads? He claims NONE when the Brand New BP has been pulled before ever being shot and coated well with Nikal Anti Seize, it’s a shame the Manufacturers Don’t do this from the very get go

This new Remington plug design sounds AWESOME :yeah: I have been a long time, actually Lifelong Remington model 700 Fan. If i were gonna go in to a high end Inline Muzzleloader i would be all over the Remington with this new plug design

 

[ENCORE50A]

My only point was so that some new guy didn’t see this and think OH GEEZ I sure don’t wanna use that Garbage Nickel Anti seize. I know i am easily persuaded that way. The guy i spoke of in an earlier thread about using Nikal Anti seize, he pulls brand new Breech plugs from Sidelock barrels before they are ever shot just so he can thoroughly clean and then Coat the Threads liberally with that Nikal stuff, He obviously has some unique and Specific tools for pulling Sidelock BP plugs, The everyday guy will make a BAD mess out of a Sidelock BP if he tries doing it with just a vise and wrench. The cool part about the Nikal stuff he swears by, is after a year or more of steady shooting a Sidelock he has pulled the Plugs again to check for any Migration of fouling into the threads? He claims NONE when the Brand New BP has been pulled before ever being shot and coated well with Nikal Anti Seize, it’s a shame the Manufacturers Don’t do this from the very get go

This new Remington plug design sounds AWESOME :yeah: I have been a long time, actually Lifelong Remington model 700 Fan. If i were gonna go in to a high end Inline Muzzleloader i would be all over the Remington with this new plug design

I asked Luke about using the nickle anti-seize and he mentioned its what he uses in his rifles. Good to know and its exactly what I'll use. Nice thing about the RUM or UF rifles, you can do anything to the action that you can any 700SA. I have a 15MOA rail and at one time had a Timney trigger on it. It now wears a Jewell and the Timney is on a .450 Bushmaster.
Took the Slingshot for a ride over to a small town and was lucky (?) to find a bottle of BH209. The "?" was I paid a premium price. But I can't have a barrel returned on the 3rd and not have some BH measured out

 

[Idaholewis]

My only point was so that some new guy didn’t see this and think OH GEEZ I sure don’t wanna use that Garbage Nickel Anti seize. I know i am easily persuaded that way. The guy i spoke of in an earlier thread about using Nikal Anti seize, he pulls brand new Breech plugs from Sidelock barrels before they are ever shot just so he can thoroughly clean and then Coat the Threads liberally with that Nikal stuff, He obviously has some unique and Specific tools for pulling Sidelock BP plugs, The everyday guy will make a BAD mess out of a Sidelock BP if he tries doing it with just a vise and wrench. The cool part about the Nikal stuff he swears by, is after a year or more of steady shooting a Sidelock he has pulled the Plugs again to check for any Migration of fouling into the threads? He claims NONE when the Brand New BP has been pulled before ever being shot and coated well with Nikal Anti Seize, it’s a shame the Manufacturers Don’t do this from the very get go

This new Remington plug design sounds AWESOME :yeah: I have been a long time, actually Lifelong Remington model 700 Fan. If i were gonna go in to a high end Inline Muzzleloader i would be all over the Remington with this new plug design

I asked Luke about using the nickle anti-seize and he mentioned its what he uses in his rifles. Good to know and its exactly what I'll use. Nice thing about the RUM or UF rifles, you can do anything to the action that you can any 700SA. I have a 15MOA rail and at one time had a Timney trigger on it. It now wears a Jewell and the Timney is on a .450 Bushmaster.
Took the Slingshot for a ride over to a small town and was lucky (?) to find a bottle of BH209. The "?" was I paid a premium price. But I can't have a barrel returned on the 3rd and not have some BH measured out

How do you like your Jewell trigger? Last year i went back n forth over the Jewell and the Bix’N Andy Ball Bearing trigger for my Remington 700 .308 Varmint Rifle, I ended up going with a 2 stage Bix trigger, I absolutely love it!! :yeah: I run this Bix right on 1 lb, I have had several Timney’s in Rem 700s over the years and they are no doubt a Good trigger, But they are NOT in the same league as this Bix

 

[GM54-120]

If you got a Rem700 and you dont want to spend a fortune, look at the TriggerTech. They are virtually idiot proof. Even Bergara uses them in the Premier line of bolt actions.
https://triggertech.com/collections/bolt-action

 

[ENCORE50A]

My only point was so that some new guy didn’t see this and think OH GEEZ I sure don’t wanna use that Garbage Nickel Anti seize. I know i am easily persuaded that way. The guy i spoke of in an earlier thread about using Nikal Anti seize, he pulls brand new Breech plugs from Sidelock barrels before they are ever shot just so he can thoroughly clean and then Coat the Threads liberally with that Nikal stuff, He obviously has some unique and Specific tools for pulling Sidelock BP plugs, The everyday guy will make a BAD mess out of a Sidelock BP if he tries doing it with just a vise and wrench. The cool part about the Nikal stuff he swears by, is after a year or more of steady shooting a Sidelock he has pulled the Plugs again to check for any Migration of fouling into the threads? He claims NONE when the Brand New BP has been pulled before ever being shot and coated well with Nikal Anti Seize, it’s a shame the Manufacturers Don’t do this from the very get go

This new Remington plug design sounds AWESOME :yeah: I have been a long time, actually Lifelong Remington model 700 Fan. If i were gonna go in to a high end Inline Muzzleloader i would be all over the Remington with this new plug design

I asked Luke about using the nickle anti-seize and he mentioned its what he uses in his rifles. Good to know and its exactly what I'll use. Nice thing about the RUM or UF rifles, you can do anything to the action that you can any 700SA. I have a 15MOA rail and at one time had a Timney trigger on it. It now wears a Jewell and the Timney is on a .450 Bushmaster.
Took the Slingshot for a ride over to a small town and was lucky (?) to find a bottle of BH209. The "?" was I paid a premium price. But I can't have a barrel returned on the 3rd and not have some BH measured out

How do you like your Jewell trigger? Last year i went back n forth over the Jewell and the Bix’N Andy Ball Bearing trigger for my Remington 700 .308 Varmint Rifle, I ended up going with a 2 stage Bix trigger, I absolutely love it!! :yeah: I run this Bix right on 1 lb, I have had several Timney’s in Rem 700s over the years and they are no doubt a Good trigger, But they are NOT in the same league as this Bix

Exceptionally pleased with the Jewell. I did a lot of research on tuning them and learned a few things from the shooting school info. For instance, most think that they have to have the trigger set to break with "0" over travel. Every shooting school instructor wants over travel, unless, its only for bench, with frt/rr bags/rests. I like a 2# trigger, but have the Jewell set to 1.12oz. I have yet to try the other springs.

 

[Idaholewis]

If you got a Rem700 and you dont want to spend a fortune, look at the TriggerTech. They are virtually idiot proof. Even Bergara uses them in the Premier line of bolt actions.
https://triggertech.com/collections/bolt-action

I have heard a lot of good about them, Whaley’s Precision in Coeur d'Alene (just south of me) swears by the TriggerTech. My Bix’N Andy is 100% adjustabile, From the trigger Shoe itself, to Pull weight, over travel, Even the 2 Stage tension is fully Customizable/adjustable, And the really cool part is every single adjustment can be made without having to remove the Action from the Stock, I can actually take my trigger itself completely apart and clean every single moving piece of it. The Bix’ N Andy Ball Bearing Triggers are in a Class of their own. I spoke back n forth with Bullet Central’s owner Chris Harris, he sells Both the Jewell and The Bix triggers, He was willing to ship me out a Jewell, and The Bix’ N Andy so i could try them both, He was absolutely Confident in which one i would keep. He had NOTHING bad to say about The Jewell’s, He said they were Superb triggers, But he felt the Bix’ N Andy’s were in a league of their own

 

[ENCORE50A]

I think there's a number of really great triggers available, but I believe it really comes down to the shooter's preference. I like a 2# or slightly less trigger with "0" creep, but know others that prefer a 5# trigger and really don't care about creep or over travel. Every once in awhile, I shoot with a guy who competes with a high end custom rifle. He only shoots 100yds, but at a circle the size of a lead pencil eraser with a dang dot the side of the lead inside the circle. THE DOT IS THE TARGET! His trigger, which I can't remember the name of, is set at 2oz.
I really liked the wide shoe on the Timney 512, but after a few hundred rounds, I felt the need for the narrower trigger and a change. The Jewell is currently fitting the bill. The one trigger I absolutely hated, was the X-Mark Pro.

 

[Chick]

Luke sent me this photo after drilling out the breech plug from my BP Xpress. That BP was installed with a lot of Nickle Anti-Seize and still required drilling and an ez-out.
Be like a new rifle soon

This is the kind of mess I was dealing with, with my bolt rifles, that was taking the fun out of muzzleloading. I never had to go to the extreme, but with the nickle anti-seeze, I actually bent BP wrenches.

 

[ENCORE50A]

This is the kind of mess I was dealing with, with my bolt rifles, that was taking the fun out of muzzleloading. I never had to go to the extreme, but with the nickle anti-seeze, I actually bent BP wrenches.

Chick, the rifle was designed by the manufacturer, Ultimate Firearms Inc., to never remove the breech plug. Softer steel was used for the breech plug and it actually wedges itself in to the barrel threads. When Remington bought the rights to the ignition system, they hardened the breech plug allowing it to be removed. I tried the anti-seize hoping it could be removed. Nope. ASG fixed all the problems with the new breech plug and ignition system.