Out with the old

[Danny Ross]

I think that, after the first breech plug had to be removed with a broken bolt puller, the rifle and I would have parted company or it would have been relegated to the gun case, no matter how well it shot. There are too many easy-to-use muzzleloaders to put up with such nonsense.

 

[fishhawk2700]

I think that, after the first breech plug had to be removed with a broken bolt puller, the rifle and I would have parted company or it would have been relegated to the gun case, no matter how well it shot. There are too many easy-to-use muzzleloaders to put up with such nonsense.

Ultimate Firearms muzzleloader breech plugs are BY DESIGN, non removable. If you take proper care of it, there is no need to remove it. As far as easy to use, IMO, there are none easier. If you do your part, with a factory load, these rifles will shoot MOA out to 500 yrds. When you're done shooting, 5 patches and a Remwipe and your rifle is ready for the gun safe.
Sometimes people forget that for 400 years, breech plugs, for the most part, were not removable.

 

[Chick]

It was threaded, but not designed to be removed? Makes perfect sense to me. Glad you got it fixed. But, it still relates to the problems I had with my bolt rifles. With my Accura, the breech plug is designed to come out with your fingers. And, it sure makes for easy cleaning!

 

[ENCORE50A]

It was threaded, but not designed to be removed? Makes perfect sense to me. Glad you got it fixed. But, it still relates to the problems I had with my bolt rifles. With my Accura, the breech plug is designed to come out with your fingers. And, it sure makes for easy cleaning!

The muzzleloader was "fixed" before the breech plug was removed. What you're seeing is because I went to an entire new breech plug system. My choice, not a necessity.

As fishhawk2700 mentioned, for 400yrs, most muzzleloaders didn't have removable breech plugs.
It is easier and faster to clean than your Accura. 5 or 6 patches, 5 minutes and you're done. That's also shooting T7.

 

[45-70]

It was threaded, but not designed to be removed? Makes perfect sense to me. Glad you got it fixed. But, it still relates to the problems I had with my bolt rifles. With my Accura, the breech plug is designed to come out with your fingers. And, it sure makes for easy cleaning!

That is fine and dandy most on this sight know what works and all bolt guns aren't the same in regards to plug. Bolt gun breech plug has lot to do with what powder you are using.

 

[jlynch75]

I wonder if that method would remove a breechplug from a White , seems like it would do the job

I own three White rifles, two shotguns anyway, my Whtietail breech plug got stuck. I got it out my pouring Breakfree Oil in the muzzle and let it sit for three days. Plug came right out.

Jerry

 

[Chick]

The muzzleloader was "fixed" before the breech plug was removed. What you're seeing is because I went to an entire new breech plug system. My choice, not a necessity.

As fishhawk2700 mentioned, for 400yrs, most muzzleloaders didn't have removable breech plugs.
It is easier and faster to clean than your Accura. 5 or 6 patches, 5 minutes and you're done. That's also shooting T7.

Come on Encore50, Since moving to 209 ignition, I have had 3 Bolt rifles. I know what was involved to clean them, and my Vortec and Accura. The bore cleaning was close to the same, when comparing 777 to 777, same with comparing BH209 to BH209, but it was pulling the breech plug out of the action, that was the issue. My experience is that cleaning the 777 vs the BH209, finds that the BH209 is a lot easier and faster to clean out, that the 777. The Accura cleans a lot faster than any of the 3 bolt guns I had. And, it only takes me about 5 patches max, as well. If you will notice, I have been on here just a year short of you, but I began shooting black power in 1975. This is not a pi$$ing match, just a place to exchange ideas and experiences. In my rifles, the 777 was a pain in the rear end to clean, compared to BH209. Mainly, it was the darn crud ring. I used water and windex for the 777, and I use Hoppe's #9 for the BH209.

 

[Chick]

"most on this sight know what works"

I tell you what, I have been shooting muzzle-loaders since 1975, and been on this site 9 years. I pretty much know what works and doesn't work. Especially with the rifles I own, and the types I have shot. BH209 is the dream come true, while 777 was the nightmare I could not wake up from. I have heard many others say the same sort of things.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Come on Encore50, Since moving to 209 ignition, I have had 3 Bolt rifles. I know what was involved to clean them, and my Vortec and Accura. The bore cleaning was close to the same, when comparing 777 to 777, same with comparing BH209 to BH209, but it was pulling the breech plug out of the action, that was the issue. My experience is that cleaning the 777 vs the BH209, finds that the BH209 is a lot easier and faster to clean out, that the 777. The Accura cleans a lot faster than any of the 3 bolt guns I had. And, it only takes me about 5 patches max, as well. If you will notice, I have been on here just a year short of you, but I began shooting black power in 1975. This is not a pi$$ing match, just a place to exchange ideas and experiences. In my rifles, the 777 was a pain in the rear end to clean, compared to BH209. Mainly, it was the darn crud ring. I used water and windex for the 777, and I use Hoppe's #9 for the BH209.

Well its only a pi$$ing match if that's what you think it is. We have differences of opinion, some of which may be far apart.
There's been a number of people other than myself, that have indicated that T7 isn't as bad as "some" make it out. Myself and one other owner of Ultimate rifles have already stated what it takes us to clean up an entire days worth of shooting with T7 and how easy it is to clean the rifles, both bolts and spotless when finished. Both of us have mentioned that cleaning T7 is easier than cleaning the rifle after them being shot with BH. So in fact, there's more than myself that disagree with the opinion T7 is tough to clean up after. Maybe you weren't using the right cleaning products or process?
The other guys on this site that are shooting bolt action rifles, don't seem to have a problem removing the bolt and then removing the breech plugs for cleaning. The ASG Gen2 system makes it easier yet for some rifles. This I will say, if anyone is worried about how fast they can clean up one rifle over another, it must be a boring activity for them.
As far as who's been on here the longest, or who started before who, it really doesn't matter at all to me, but, being that you want to compare, I started shooting muzzleloaders in 1973. You're 2 years behind now
Believe me, I know what works with the rifles I own and shoot.
If you've paid much attention in 9 years, you'll find that there are many different ideas and people that know many various tricks and how to get the best out of a rifle.
The most knowledgeable Knight owners and shooters are on this site.
There are guys that shoot black powder, paper patched or conical bullets, that are extremely knowledgeable expert shooters.
The site also has the TOP competitive muzzleloader shooters in the Nation, along with extremely knowledgeable long range muzzleloader shooters.
IMO this site also includes the best custom muzzleloader builders in the Nation.
Yeah, we're going to question each other......

 

[45-70]

very well put Encore

 

[Chick]

Well its only a pi$$ing match if that's what you think it is. We have differences of opinion, some of which may be far apart.
There's been a number of people other than myself, that have indicated that T7 isn't as bad as "some" make it out. Myself and one other owner of Ultimate rifles have already stated what it takes us to clean up an entire days worth of shooting with T7 and how easy it is to clean the rifles, both bolts and spotless when finished. Both of us have mentioned that cleaning T7 is easier than cleaning the rifle after them being shot with BH. So in fact, there's more than myself that disagree with the opinion T7 is tough to clean up after. Maybe you weren't using the right cleaning products or process?
The other guys on this site that are shooting bolt action rifles, don't seem to have a problem removing the bolt and then removing the breech plugs for cleaning. The ASG Gen2 system makes it easier yet for some rifles. This I will say, if anyone is worried about how fast they can clean up one rifle over another, it must be a boring activity for them.
As far as who's been on here the longest, or who started before who, it really doesn't matter at all to me, but, being that you want to compare, I started shooting muzzleloaders in 1973. You're 2 years behind now
Believe me, I know what works with the rifles I own and shoot.
If you've paid much attention in 9 years, you'll find that there are many different ideas and people that know many various tricks and how to get the best out of a rifle.
The most knowledgeable Knight owners and shooters are on this site.
There are guys that shoot black powder, paper patched or conical bullets, that are extremely knowledgeable expert shooters.
The site also has the TOP competitive muzzleloader shooters in the Nation, along with extremely knowledgeable long range muzzleloader shooters.
IMO this site also includes the best custom muzzleloader builders in the Nation.
Yeah, we're going to question each other......

Whatever. The point was, that I have been at this a long darn time. You want to talk about great shooters, I was coached by a Marine Master Sargent from Cherry Point on long range shooting, who beat out his team member, Carlos Hathcock, in the Wimbleton. Yeah, I've been around the coffee cup too, at long range shooting. And, I can guarantee you, for everyone that says the 777 cleans faster, I can present someone that says different. So what? Maybe you did start in 73, maybe you didn't. I know I had just got my driver's license when I bought my first muzzle loader. So what. OK, have fun.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Whatever. You want to talk about great shooters, I was coached by a Marine Master Sargent from Cherry Point, who beat out his team member, Carlos Hathcock, in the Wimbleton. Yeah, I've been around the coffee cup too, at long range shooting. And, I can guarantee you, for everyone that says the 777 cleans faster, I can present someone that says different. So what? Maybe you did start in 73, maybe you didn't. I know I had just got my driver's license when I bought my first muzzle loader. So what. OK, have fun.

First, this post started out discussing the changing of a breech plug in an Ultimate Firearms rifle. A rifle which you didn't even know existed, yet felt you had to make comments about and have absolutely zero knowledge of the rifle or how it operates. Well done.

I would like to suggest and recommend, you make a trip to Friendship, IN. There's a couple inline matches being held in May, very good and well run matches, that 45-70 hosts. It would be a great place for you to show off some of your guarantees. Bob and Dan put on a couple great matches. Oh, I might add, its a great place to be humbled.

 

[Chick]

Seriously? You expect me to drop everything at the farm, forget my shift job and my responsibilities to my family, drive half way across the US, to shoot in a rifle match? If I wanted to compete again, I would be doing it right here, where a 600yd KD range is less than 20 miles from me, and several more are within a 100 miles. I have not competed in 20 years, but if you want to shoot in a 600 yd prone NRA High Power Match, there is one every month in Beaumont, Texas. That's 3 20 rnd relays, with 2 sighters, conventional prone, aperture sights, and I will do my best to be there and make my 3 relays right beside you. Check your PM's

My comments were about bolt guns in general, and my experiences with them.

 

[45-70]

I'm only going to say this once and you can reply all you want. I have never heard so much BS . Talk the talk do the walk.

 

[Chick]

I'm only going to say this once and you can reply all you want. I have never heard so much BS . Talk the talk do the walk.

The Invitation is extended to you to come to Golden Triangle Gun Club, as well. Heck, you can show me your stuff with your ML on the 600 yard range, or your CF, at your discretion. Put up or shutup.

 

[SuperKirby]

Dads, stop fighting. You’re scaring the kids.

I feel like maybe this has gotten a bit out of hand. How the heck it went from a post about pulling a breech plug from a gun that’s not supposed have a breech plug removed to who has bigger... gun? Chick, I can’t say I know you that well on here. Encore, know you on here we’ll enough that I expect a bit more. Come on guys. Do you really need the internet to make you feel better?

 

[ENCORE50A]

Dads, stop fighting. You’re scaring the kids.

I feel like maybe this has gotten a bit out of hand. How the heck it went from a post about pulling a breech plug from a gun that’s not supposed have a breech plug removed to who has bigger... gun? Chick, I can’t say I know you that well on here. Encore, know you on here we’ll enough that I expect a bit more. Come on guys. Do you really need the internet to make you feel better?

You are right and its getting boring hearing about centerfire shooting in a muzzleloader forum, however there is a place for modern firearm discussion.

 

[GM54-120]

I hear lots of guys say how easy the break actions are to clean and then i see this. Takes a tool to remove the bushing and if its that bad the action needs flushing out good. Thats another 2 tools to remove the buttstock right?

 

[Chick]

"You are right and its getting boring hearing about centerfire shooting in a muzzleloader forum, however there is a place for modern firearm discussion."

The only reason that CF shooting was brought into the discussion, was the measuring of charges by volume, and not weighing. Some of the most successful marksmen I know, use a volume measure, and never weighed it. Some of you will accept that, and some think it is all hogwash. I am just telling you what I have seen. I will say, that depending on the powder, I may use a powder throw or a scale.

 

[ourway77]

WOW I got lost half way through this post