Project Gun...

[sabotloader]

Picked up another MK-85 Knight. It is another 50 cal., and the real reason I was after it was that it is an older MK - Pre Green Mountain barrel... I was really hoping that it might have a bigger bore than the GM barrels do. I guess I was hoping it would be closer to the .504 size that Knight use to produce. My hopes were shattered... It is even tighter than any of the GM 50's that I have so the purpose that I wanted it for is still on the back burner...

I have had it for a few days now and finally got time to check it out... Not only is the bore tighter than I wanted but bore is lightly pitted most of the way up and down. Does not present a problem for shooting and accuracy. My first trip to the farm has really lead me to believe this rifle can be a shooter... Getting clean patches to come out of it is the real problem...

I have had it for a few days now and finally got time to check it out... Not only is the bore tighter than I wanted but bore is lightly pitted most of the way up and down. Does not present a problem for shooting and accuracy. My first trip to the farm has really lead me to believe this rifle can be a shooter... Getting clean patches to come out of it is the real problem...



It really is a nice looking rifle... but if you look at the funky barrel crown you can see the pitting near the top of the bore. I have not really spent much time at it - but I am wondering who made the barrel. The crown appears to be much like the crown on my White U-Mag Ultra Mag - but I am sure it is not a Clerke barrel.

I did get out to the farm with it this morning and get a few shots out it. While shooting I did find another problem with it. The hammer spring must be almost worn out. It really was a soft plunger. It would take a couple of hits on the cap to get it to go off, even replaced the #11 nipple - still no go. When I got home I took the spring out of my good MK and installed in this older one.... What a difference...

Hope to get out with it again a few days from now....

It really is a nice looking rifle... but if you look at the funky barrel crown you can see the pitting near the top of the bore. I have not really spent much time at it - but I am wondering who made the barrel. The crown appears to be much like the crown on my White U-Mag Ultra Mag - but I am sure it is not a Clerke barrel.

I did get out to the farm with it this morning and get a few shots out it. Where I did find another problem with it. The hammer spring must be almost worn out. It really was a soft plunger. It would take a couple of hits on the cap to get it to go off, even replaced the #11 nipple - still no go. When I got home I took the spring out of my good MK and installed in this older one.... What a difference...

Hope to get out with it again a few days from now....

 

[jsteurrys]

Lothar Walther?

It is too bad about the pitting. It should shoot fine. My MK-85 in .45 has similar issues. It just drives me crazy.

 

[flounder]

Mike, I have a SS Knight with that same crown I believe. I was told by Tony Knight and by Gordy Edwards that the barrel was made by Bill Wiseman of Texas. It is for sure one of my favorites.

From what I was told the one on the left is a Lothar Walther barrel and the stainless one on the right is a Wiseman.
This is the stock it came in

Serial # is 2902SS. Do you mind if I ask what the serial # on yours is? Does yours have six lands and grooves as well?
Oh, and this one has a .502 bore.
Art

 

[sabotloader]

Lothar Walther?

It is too bad about the pitting. It should shoot fine. My MK-85 in .45 has similar issues. It just drives me crazy.

It drive me a bit nutz also as I am thinking of different things I might do to make it better - but for me I think it will make a good loaner gun.

Besides I want to shoot it more anyway.

 

[sabotloader]

Mike, I have a SS Knight with that same crown I believe. I was told by Tony Knight and by Gordy Edwards that the barrel was made by Bill Wiseman of Texas. It is for sure one of my favorites.

From what I was told the one on the left is a Lothar Walther barrel and the stainless one on the right is a Wiseman.
This is the stock it came in

Serial # is 2902SS. Do you mind if I ask what the serial # on yours is?
Art

OK so looking at you Wiseman - the crown on that recessed like this???



Serial #3554SS

 

[flounder]

Yes, only your picture is a lot more clear than mine. Sorry to hear yours has the pitting. Does yours have the six lands and grooves?
I do have one mk that has close to the .504 you are looking for. That is my blued 20" carbine model. Serial # on that one is 17,999. It has a 1 in 32 twist though. I am not sure all the serial #s on these mk 85s are necessarily sequential.

Art

 

[sabotloader]

Yes, only your picture is a lot more clear than mine. Sorry to hear yours has the pitting. Does yours have the six lands and grooves?
I do have one mk that has close to the .504 you are looking for. That is my blued 20" carbine model. Serial # on that one is 17,999. It has a 1 in 32 twist though. I am not sure all the serial #s on these mk 85s are necessarily sequential.

Art

Hey Art, yes, this one is 6 lands and grooves...

If I really used the MK's that much I would almost think about getting moved to 54 and then shoot 50 cal. sabotted bullets. There are some really well built 50 cal. bullets out there now.

I was wondering what the twist rate of the older MK's might be - I know there were the 1-48 bunch and the 1-32. What is the twist of your Wiseman?

mike

 

[flounder]

The Wiseman I have is a 1 in 28 inch twist. I recently purchase a vintage 54 with a laminated stock that looks just like yours. It has the old style plunger and it also has the faster twist. It has never been fired. I have three blued ones with the slightly slower 1 in 32 inch twist, two of them are Walther barrels and I still don't know who made the other one.

 

[sabotloader]

The Wiseman I have is a 1 in 28 inch twist. I recently purchase a vintage 54 with a laminated stock that looks just like yours. It has the old style plunger and it also has the faster twist. It has never been fired. I have three blued ones with the slightly slower 1 in 32 inch twist, two of them are Walther barrels and I still don't know who made the other one.

Good I did try to compute the twist and thought it was 1-28 but was not sure. This one had the older plunger style in it also but I think someone tried to switch it to the newer style. It was not really working right - very light hammer spring and would not always pull back far enough to catch the sear....

Put a new Wolver/Big Horn plunger system in and it works great...

This is what was in it...

 

[flounder]

Looks like they took better care of the stock than that barrel. I really like that style laminated stock. They must have used those plastic trigger guards on all the early mk's. I'll have to take a picture of the older style plunger so you know what I mean. It is stepped down so where the hammer hits the cap it is just large enough to go over the #11 cap.
just like this one here: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1383180.htm

 

[GM54-120]

I love the old Mk threads. They were such attractive rifles.

Flounder is that MK you have in the laminate thumbhole a Grand American? The stock looks like one. They were supposed to be the forerunner to the MH line IIRC.

 

[flounder]

I love the old Mk threads. They were such attractive rifles.

Flounder is that MK you have in the laminate thumbhole a Grand American? The stock looks like one. They were supposed to be the forerunner to the MH line IIRC.

I came across it on the used rack at a gun store. On the tag it said it was from the Knight Custom Shop. So, I don't know if it was originally marketed as a "Grand American" but it has the features of the "Grand American".

 

[sabotloader]

Looks like they took better care of the stock than that barrel. I really like that style laminated stock. They must have used those plastic trigger guards on all the early mk's. I'll have to take a picture of the older style plunger so you know what I mean. It is stepped down so where the hammer hits the cap it is just large enough to go over the #11 cap.
just like this one here: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1383180.htm

I have never seen that style of hammer! I think I am going to have to get one of those for this gun. I would be interested in seeing a picture of your early MK style hammer assembly...

 

[AJ]

Yep, Pyrodex will do that to a barrel. My Elite .50 is similar but still shoots decent. One of the reasons my Omega will never see Pyrodex or T7 as long as I own it.

In fact, my Elite .50 has a 11° target crown just like yours. It did not come from the factory like that though, I cut it myself. I recut my .45 and .50 Elite guns crowns as they sucked from Knight. Now, it is consistent and straight.

 

[sabotloader]

Yep, Pyrodex will do that to a barrel. My Elite .50 is similar but still shoots decent. One of the reasons my Omega will never see Pyrodex or T7 as long as I own it.

In fact, my Elite .50 has a 11° target crown just like yours. It did not come from the factory like that though, I cut it myself. I recut my .45 and .50 Elite guns crowns as they sucked from Knight. Now, it is consistent and straight.

I quit using Pyro right after I started shooting ML's - I still use a bit of BP in the traditionals now and them but very little. T7 has been great - it is so much less corrosive and so much easy to neutralize the potas salts it has never been a problem.

I will probably end up re-cutting/honing this crown just a bit also... but I want to get a good feeling on how the rifle shoots as it is.

 

[flounder]

Looks like they took better care of the stock than that barrel. I really like that style laminated stock. They must have used those plastic trigger guards on all the early mk's. I'll have to take a picture of the older style plunger so you know what I mean. It is stepped down so where the hammer hits the cap it is just large enough to go over the #11 cap.
just like this one here: http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/1383180.htm

I have never seen that style of hammer! I think I am going to have to get one of those for this gun. I would be interested in seeing a picture of your early MK style hammer assembly...

Good Morning,

Here is the old style plunger assembled with all the knobs and spring next to a newer style

Here it is in the .54 it came in

Here is the rifle

I have three older mks that had that older style hammer. Although they look kind of cool, I think the newer style hammers are an improvement because they contain the cap better after it is fired and they give you the ability to use a musket cap if you so desire.

 

[jsteurrys]

It looks like flounder is becoming our resident MK-85 Expert.

 

[shguns]

Sabotloader,
I wonder if you could send the barrel to Bobby Hoyt in PA and have the bore "freshened"?
It might/probably clean up all the light pitting and get you the .504 bore you are hoping for?
From what I've read the guy is a rifle barrel master and can do just about any bore twist you want.
Probably be more that you are interested in investing in this piece, but food for thought anyway.

 

[sabotloader]

Sabotloader,
I wonder if you could send the barrel to Bobby Hoyt in PA and have the bore "freshened"?
It might/probably clean up all the light pitting and get you the .504 bore you are hoping for?
From what I've read the guy is a rifle barrel master and can do just about any bore twist you want.
Probably be more that you are interested in investing in this piece, but food for thought anyway.

Great suggestion... I will put that on file

Thanks! mike

 

[jsteurrys]

Sabotloader,
I wonder if you could send the barrel to Bobby Hoyt in PA and have the bore "freshened"?
It might/probably clean up all the light pitting and get you the .504 bore you are hoping for?
From what I've read the guy is a rifle barrel master and can do just about any bore twist you want.
Probably be more that you are interested in investing in this piece, but food for thought anyway.

Can you provide more information on this process? I would like to open up my .45 a little.