Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader

[Busta]

Anyone seen one yet?

IIRC, it was supposed to be out in August?

Google search shows nothing new, and I've been out of the loop.

 

[ENCORE50A]

One arrived to a member yesterday........... viewtopic.php?f=13&t=25606

 

[Busta]

Sorry, but I'm looking for an "Average Joe" report.

 

[LarryBud]

I see Remington has a suggested retail price of $999.

 

[Widude]

Is this a new inline that can't even shoot Blackhorn 209 powder? That would be a deal breaker for me.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Is this a new inline that can't even shoot Blackhorn 209 powder? That would be a deal breaker for me.

Might I ask why??????

 

[GM54-120]

Is this a new inline that can't even shoot Blackhorn 209 powder? That would be a deal breaker for me.

Let me rephrase it more accurately for you.

Is this a new $1000 form 4473 inline using proprietary shortened 308 LRMP primer modules that Remington does not recommend shooting Blackhorn209 powder in? That would be a deal breaker for me.

My understanding is the shortened 308 modules are not just shortened .473 bolt head cases. The internal dimensions are not the same. You may be locked into buying these "modules" from Remington. This "style" did not work out too well for Savage for a few reasons including making it a form 4473 firearm.

 

[bp45cal]

Is this a new inline that can't even shoot Blackhorn 209 powder? That would be a deal breaker for me.

Let me rephrase it more accurately for you.

Is this a new $1000 form 4473 inline using proprietary shortened 308 LRMP primer modules that Remington does not recommend shooting Blackhorn209 powder in? That would be a deal breaker for me.

My understanding is the shortened 308 modules are not just shortened .473 bolt head cases. The internal dimensions are not the same. You may be locked into buying these "modules" from Remington. This "style" did not work out too well for Savage for a few reasons including making it a form 4473 firearm.

Is a 4473 firearm conciderd a rifle and not a muzzleloader??Cuss that izz to much paperwork for me to get one up here.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Is this a new inline that can't even shoot Blackhorn 209 powder? That would be a deal breaker for me.

Let me rephrase it more accurately for you.

Is this a new $1000 form 4473 inline using proprietary shortened 308 LRMP primer modules that Remington does not recommend shooting Blackhorn209 powder in? That would be a deal breaker for me.

My understanding is the shortened 308 modules are not just shortened .473 bolt head cases. The internal dimensions are not the same. You may be locked into buying these "modules" from Remington. This "style" did not work out too well for Savage for a few reasons including making it a form 4473 firearm.

I guess the best way to put this, my opinion of the new rifle (and mine): FIRST..... I wasn't a bit different than any other member here or on any other forum. Shooting pellets? ARE YOU NUTS?! What the heck would anyone want to do that for, when we have BH209????? I'd have actually RACED anyone else in getting my hands up first saying that.

However, what I have realized is everything I (we) had been used to over the years, isn't the same with this ignition system in these rifles. It took me a long time to make the decision to purchase one of these rifles and it took me out of my "NORMAL". Now its no secret that I made the attempt to shoot BH from my rifle and we all know, I myself said I'd eat the crow (see the thread). These rifles will take YOU out of your normal and introduce you to something entirely different and, what shooters need to understand, it isn't at all within most shooter's "normal". These rifles are DESIGNED to optimize the ignition of shooting pellets by the entire design of the breech plug. Its hard for shooters to get their heads wrapped around the design, because again, its out of their "normal".

Now, the .308 cases are no different than any other .308 case that you may shoot or reload, as far as any dimensions. The ONLY difference is in a slight reaming of the inside of the primer pocket, which gives better containment to the breech plug. That's it. Now this is where I got "banned" from RW's FaceBook page :lol: , as he didn't like my real world experience to his posts. The cases WILL NOT last forever, nor do I believe in my wildest dreams that they will last a dozen or more loadings as RW may suggest in his writings.

When the case is loaded into the rifle, the case is pushed tight to the breech plug by the bolt. After a case is used a number of times (3 or 4), the inside of the primer pocket becomes indented. Once indented to a minimum, that specific case can allow blow back into the action. This is when the brass is no longer useful and needs to be discarded. Initially, a new case may make it hard to close the bolt, even a case from Remington. What one has to realize is, this is not a loaded case going into a chambered action. Its a case fitting OVER a nipple on a breech plug.

Cases from a .308 trimmed to length can be used but, a slight chamfer should be made to the inside of the primer pocket.

I've said it from the beginning and I'll continue to say it, the rifle isn't for everyone but, only for those who will step out of their "normal". Look over the pics below.........

 

[rwbaker]

Is this a new inline that can't even shoot Blackhorn 209 powder? That would be a deal breaker for me.

To me 209 is the best powder if I lived out west I would buy these long range shooter . But where I hunt in michigan 100 yard or less .

 

[AveragEd]

Speaking of the case being pushed tight to the breech plug by the bolt, I wonder if my rifle has excessive headspace as the expended primers are standing proud of the cases upon extraction.

I have been in communication with Randy Wakeman regarding the 700UML and he isn't bashful about his fondness for loose powder over pellets. But this is a 21st-century gun that should be quite capable of great accuracy and humane killing power using modern fuels so why not take advantage of that?

Finally Busta, how much more of an "average Joe" do I have to be? The handle under which I write isn't "AveragEd" because I'm a pro. And I buy my test guns, so I can say whatever I want about them.

Ed

 

[GM54-120]

Pellets modern? If they are so modern why are they not used in CFs and BH209 is newer?

Ever weigh pellets for deviation? Ever wonder how well that box seals while its sitting for months before being sold? How many broken pellets have you seen come out of a brand new box? Ive seen MANY broken pellets from a brand spanking new box. Ever wonder if a pellet gets cracked sometimes while seating a sabot? Do you know what happens when you do crack/crush a pellet?

Weighed loose charges are the only way to get extremely low weight spreads. Ask any competitive long range slug gun shooter. The vast majority ive seen weigh their BP charges.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Speaking of the case being pushed tight to the breech plug by the bolt, I wonder if my rifle has excessive headspace as the expended primers are standing proud of the cases upon extraction.

I have been in communication with Randy Wakeman regarding the 700UML and he isn't bashful about his fondness for loose powder over pellets. But this is a 21st-century gun that should be quite capable of great accuracy and humane killing power using modern fuels so why not take advantage of that?

Finally Busta, how much more of an "average Joe" do I have to be? The handle under which I write isn't "AveragEd" because I'm a pro. And I buy my test guns, so I can say whatever I want about them.

Ed

Over the 350 rounds I've sent, I have noticed at least one where the primer seemed extended. All my cases now and before using BH, seated tight. I had a few that it was hard to close the bolt, thus the tool if necessary. I tried discussing things with RW and he banned me from his FB page.... :lol:

 

[ENCORE50A]

Pellets modern? If they are so modern why are they not used in CFs and BH209 is newer?

Ever weigh pellets for deviation? Ever wonder how well that box seals while its sitting for months before being sold? How many broken pellets have you seen come out of a brand new box? Ive seen MANY broken pellets from a brand spanking new box. Ever wonder if a pellet gets cracked sometimes while seating a sabot? Do you know what happens when you do crack/crush a pellet?

Weighed loose charges are the only way to get extremely low weight spreads. Ask any competitive long range slug gun shooter. The vast majority ive seen weigh their BP charges.

I've went through a lot of T7M pellets and not a single pellet was ever broken in the box. Pellets can get broke if you put to much pressure on them when seating the bullet, it spikes pressure. Loose is the way to go, I agree and I tried that in a rifle that wasn't designed for it. But I'm getting 3.25" five shot groups at 400yds shooting pellets too.

 

[AveragEd]

Come on - pellets might not be the newest black powder fuel but they are very modern as a type of muzzleloader propellant. The vast majority of "average Joe" (to use someone else's descriptive) modern muzzleloader buyers are big-game hunters. If they were going to use the rifle for benchrest competition, all that precision would be worthwhile.

Who doesn't see chipped pellets? I don't see a lot in each box (maybe your dealer throws his inventory around more than mine) but I don't use them. And as for cracked or crushed pellets, I know they can burn at goofy rates at best and be dangerous at worst so I do everything I can to avoid causing them. A friend loaded my Omega for me while I changed boots last year and bounced the rod on the seated bullet several times before I could stop him. I pulled the breech plug and pushed the load out. He laughed at me when there was absolutely NO chipped, cracked or crushed pellets but I'd rather be safe than the alternative.

Ed

 

[GM54-120]

Ive never had to throw ANY BH209 away and i doubt you could ever crack it.

BH209 is even safe in most if not all powder dispensers like my RCBS Chargemaster 1500 combo...now THAT is modern.

If you want to really talk MODERN, come on over to the SML section and we can talk about real modern options and a easy 2500fps. Thats about my starting load data for a 300gr in my 45cal. I limit the fps in the ULA 50 a bit more due to its sub 7lb weight. Its just under 5lbs bare. :mrgreen:

 

[Widude]

Here's a test for someone. Take your chronograph out and test equivalent loads of pellets and B209 in the same gun. I know Pyrodex pellets will give a fair amount less FPS. I expect even 777 pellets will fall short when it comes to fps deviation and possibly overall speed.

I know when I compared 'Shockey's Gold' to B209, the SG got totally stomped on.

Yes I know one doesn't need max fps to kill a deer, but we are talking a 'modern inline' here.

If I wanted a new gun today I'd go by a new Knight. Then you throw in the form 4473 just for more hassle. Why do it?

 

[ENCORE50A]

Some shooters just want to step out of the box I guess.