Short barrel rifles

[Bad Karma]

Hmmm… loading the grenade with the cock fully cocked and his finger on the trigger. May need remedial schooling at the range. Or hell, they need cooks too, even one handed ones!

 

[eekjellander]

I bought a .50 cal White Mountain Carbine off a guy with a 1-20'' twist last winter. Almost seems like a toy as small and light as it is. I have not fired it yet. I really like how it handles and how it shoulders. Thinking about getting some 600+ grainers to shoot out of it. I'm thinking it will be a 50 yd and under gun. I would like take it down to South Carolina and shoot some hogs. That would be fun.

Any thoughts on who gets hit (HARDER) just sayin/Ed

 

[Hatchet Jack]

Any thoughts on who gets hit (HARDER) just sayin/Ed

Not sure. But hope to find out.

 

[Leigh Clambakes]

Well those photos were from a tv show, and I think we all know how closely they follow the safety rules....

 

[Matthew323]

The Hungarian professor that runs the Cap & Ball channel on YouTube posted a video a couple of years ago on an original, flintlock, Jaeger Stutz (Stutzen) rifle that only had a 13" long barrel.

The bore diameters on most conventional Jaeger rifles tended to be from .58 caliber, to as large as .80 caliber.

This particular Stutz was no different with, as I recall, about a .66 caliber bore

The video had been linked to threads started on both the American Longrifles Forum, and The Muzzleloading Forum.

Which, of course, lead to heated discussions on the effectiveness of such short barreled flintlocks.

The original purpose of the Jaeger Stutz rifles was for extreme handiness & maneuverability while hunting Russian boar in the steep mountainous terrain in what we now call the country of Germany.

Most of this hunting was done from horseback by the nobility, although when necessary these hunters dismounted to hunt the boar on foot.

Modern evidence suggests that these short barreled rifles, with barrels ranging from 9" long to 21" long, were both very accurate, and fully capable of killing game out as far as a hunter could see to shoot. Which is to say, that they were not just short range weapons.

The modern notion that a powder charge necessary for killing a big Russian boar out at 100 yards, was going to result in a lot of the powder charge being blown out of the barrel of these seemingly too short barrels, unburnt; is simply not true.

Modern chemical engineers that study the combustion of various propellants, and explosives, know for a fact that with real black powder once the ignition process is started, complete combustion of the powder charge, regardless of its size/volume, only takes a few milliseconds.

There is no way for unburnt black powder to be expelled behind the ball/bullet. What we muzzleoading shooters are noticing is the soot/fouling that normally stays in the bore being expelled as a black residue.

With a short barreled rifle, it is more a matter of finding an accurate powder charge, usually one far smaller than will deliver maximum killing energy. Then, couple that 65 grain to 90 grain powder charge behind a large diameter pure lead ball, usually in the mid-.60 caliber range. This will give a sidelock hunter plenty of power to kill something like a 400 pound Russian boar, even out to a range like 100 yards.

It's not so much the length of the barrel, as it is the ability to hold a very short barrel steady, coupled with a very short sight plane.

Practice will cure all of the inherent limitations of a pistol-length barrel mounted in a shoulder-fired rifle.

 

[dbowling]

TOP IS a chopped Renegade with a 20-21 in barrel that I sent to Bobby Hoyt to rebore to .54 and for big heavy conicals.. shoots 535gr No-Excuse really well. Bottom is T/C Black Diamond 12.5 in barrel that is both a pistol/rifle, have walnut pistol stock, very accurate either way.
The other is a Knight Disc pistol 12.5 in barrel I made from a T/H stock its very accurate shooting BH209 and various bullets.

 

[junkman]

TOP IS a chopped Renegade with a 20-21 in barrel that I sent to Bobby Hoyt to rebore to .54 and for big heavy conicals.. shoots 535gr No-Excuse really well. Bottom is T/C Black Diamond 12.5 in barrel that is both a pistol/rifle, have walnut pistol stock, very accurate either way.
The other is a Knight Disc pistol 12.5 in barrel I made from a T/H stock its very accurate shooting BH209 and various bullets.View attachment 16402

Looks like great minds think alike.

 

[junkman]

 

[dbowling]

I

View attachment 16412

I like your paint job.

 

[mulemauler]

This is what happens when a gunsmith with a leaning towards muzzleloaders and a bunch of misc. parts laying around is sent home during the Covid scare and gets bored. May get around to finishing it someday but it's current state has grown on me. It is capable of minute of Bambi accuracy at 50 yards. Have never tried it at 100. Has a 12" barrel that I'd cut off from a previous build.

 

[mulemauler]

This is an original. 9" barrel, .32 Caliber. It is not a cut down rifle but was built this way intentionally. No ram rod hole was ever drilled. Notice no butt plate or trigger guard. I always guessed that it was likely built for a trapper to be easily carried in a backpack.

 

[mulemauler]

This one has a 20" , .62 smooth bore barrel. Guess I've always had a thing for short barreled guns.

 

[junkman]

I

I like your paint job.

Thank you

 

[Hudgic]

The real question on short barreled muzzys is how short is to short to have a complete burn with 80gr of powder

 

[user 25154]

Watched the cap movie ball video. He says the short barrel makes it easier to load on horse back. Makes sense. The cap n ball guy really knows his gun history.

 

[mulemauler]

not exactly a rifled carbine - the super short smooth barrelled 18th century version of today's jihadist "RPG" ... :mrgreen:

The Riffle Shoppe has these parts in their catalog, might be a bit of a wait to get them.

 

[Matthew323]

This one has a 20" , .62 smooth bore barrel. Guess I've always had a thing for short barreled guns.

I like it.

Shades of a blunderbuss!!

 

[Dwayne]

Many years ago I purchased a deer hunter traditions flintlock that had a very short barrel on it. Total length is about 24inches.

That gun actually replaced all my other flintlock and underhammer guns. It is my number one go to black powder for everything.

Couldnt ask for a better rifle for weight, accuracy, maneuverability, and flat out fun gun to shoot.

 

[Matthew323]

This is what happens when a gunsmith with a leaning towards muzzleloaders and a bunch of misc. parts laying around is sent home during the Covid scare and gets bored. May get around to finishing it someday but it's current state has grown on me. It is capable of minute of Bambi accuracy at 50 yards. Have never tried it at 100. Has a 12" barrel that I'd cut off from a previous build.

The real question on short barreled muzzys is how short is to short to have a complete burn with 80gr of powder

There is no amount of black powder that any reasonably minded shooter could/would load into a short barreled rifle that will not fully combust before the patched ball leaves the muzzle.

When people state that an xxx amount powder charge is not fully combusting in their rifle, and the evidence provided to prove their assertion is particles of unburnt powder laying on the ground in front of wherever they are shooting....

What they are seeing is the black soot, or fouling, that has been expelled out of the barrel behind the patched ball.

In the contained environment of a muzzleoading rifle barrel, shooting a properly fitted patch & ball combination, it is impossible for complete combustion not to take place before the patched ball has left the muzzle.

This is just the chemical nature of how black powder combusts. It's not like if one had a pile of black powder laying out in the open, where when the initial combustion starts, the swirling nature of the combustion might send some particles of black powder along the edges of the pile shooting out of the pile before complete combustion took place.

In the contained environment of the rifle barrel, from the initial spark of ignition, combined with the resistance from the patched ball, means that complete combustion happens in only milliseconds. Long before the ball & patch have had enough time to exit the barrel.

I have never seen a close up image of true unburnt black powder displayed on any muzzleloading forum, that would support the claim of unburnt black powder being ejected from a rifle barrel. What I have seen is long distance images of black particulate material sitting on the ground in front of a shooting bench.

 

[junkman]

I have an old .45 CVA Kentucky Rifle kicking around that I picked up at a flea market.I'm thinking of taking the saw to it.