Sighting in issues CVA Optima

[jdhaines32]

I am fairly new to the world of muzzleloaders. Sorry for the long post just trying to get some help and answers with a frustraiting situationMy question is regarding sighting in. i have a CVA Optima with a 3x9x40 Nikon Prostaff scope. I am shooting two pellets of Triple 7 with 295 grain Power Belts. I have been using it for the last two years, but had alot of accuracy issues. This year I decided to get more serious about it and took it to the range the other day to shoot.

I am trying to sight it in at 100 yards. The first shot was a tad high and to the left but real good for my shooting off of sand bags. The next shot was no where on the paper target. So I cleaned with a patch and fired to more shots not hitting the paper. Cleaned again and hit way low to the left. Made the scope adjustments and missed the target again. My father who is a much better shot than me was along so he shot and hig bottom left corner of the paper target twice but not in the rings, and missed the target the last shot. We cleaned and adjusted the scope some more and he hit in line with the center of the rings on the target but about 3" left. At this time we were frustrated and gave up for the day.

I took the scope off the rings and screw was cracked leaving me to believe this may have been causing this, but it doesn't account for the issues I had the last two years which is similar to this year's issues. I bought new rings by Durasight and sent the scope back to Nikon to have it checked out just in case. I did shoot the with the open sights and it was good out to 50 yards, so it leaves me to believe it has to be the scope or the rings.

If my situation continues after getting the scope back and new rings and mounts where do I go from hear. I welcome any suggestions or infromation regarding better loads or anything else. Thanks for the assitance in advance

 

[fla shooter]

With the situation getting better with the open sights I would come to the same conclusion as you about the scope or rings being the problem

 

[Widude]

Not to rip on your current load, but I would try some others, loose powder isn't that difficult & you can adjust your loads a whole lot more. I'd try 777 or move over to Blackhorn 209 with the hot primers that are required.

Maybe try some SST's or the shockwave 250 & 300 grn slugs with a sabot that fits your bore well, not to tight or loose.

This is all assuming your scope & mounts are all in good order, & attached securely.

I always want to see absolute control of your groupings at 50 yards before one moves to 100. You should have all your shots in a nice repeatable group at 50, then try it out at 100.

On a final note, if your groups are good at 50 but only somewhat O.K. past 75, limit your hunting ranges to 75. This would apply with iron sights as well. Yes, you should be able to easily handle 100 yrds with the right load properly sighted in.

There may be subtle reasons like forearm pressure against the barrel at work too. I watched a guy sight in a while back & he was resting his barrel on the 'V-rest' at the range. Not the way I'd want to do it.

 

[sbuff]

All good points I would suggest too...

 

[cayuga]

This is just a suggestion. Take the scope and have it mounted correcting all the problems you described.

Next I would go to loose powder like Pyrodex RS. I would drop the load to 80 grains and try the powerbelts. Also that rifle will shoot a lot more then powerbelts and you might like to try some other things.

 

[jdhaines32]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I am waiting to hear back from Nikon and to get my scope back if there is nothing wrong with it. I did buy a set of the Durasight Mounts that have the rings molded right into them. I am going to try them and the scope when I get them back, and play around with some different loads and see what happens and go from there. Thanks again

 

[Omega45]

When you get it all set up again start at 50yds and sight it in dead on or 1" high. Try to get 3 touching with your load of choice. Once you achieve that move to 100yds. Be consistant with all you do. Snap a few primers to put some fouling in your barrel prior to the first shot then swab after each shot. Check out EA Browns website and look under their accuracy tips for muzzleloading. I used their technique years ago when I was a pellet shooter with excellent results.

 

[jdhaines32]

Anyone ever hear of cantilation. I talked to a rep from Nikon yesterday and he said that they were going to ship my scope back to me soon. It had more nitrogen added and the cantilation was adjusted. He did say that it passed the shock test but had no more details. Anyone ever hear of a scope's cantilation and what it means?

 

[jdhaines32]

First off I want to thank everyone for the suggestions and help with the issue I was having with my sighting in. I got my scope back from Nikon and they said everything past the shock test, and was good to go, except that they adjusted the collimation. I did switch mounts and rings, to the Durasight intergal mounts with the rings molded into. I sighted it in at 50 and moved out to 100 yards, and was very pleased with the results, after a few minor adjustments. I have it to the point that it is about 1" high at 100 yards. I was thinking of leaving it this way, incase I get a little longer shot, but I want to go back and shot some more at 50 just to see where the impact is, since most of my shots are in the 50-100 yards range anyways. Thanks again to all who offereed advice, info, and suggestions.

 

[River Rat]

Sounds like you have your problem fixed. I was having the same problem when sighting in my muzzleloader and I ended up spending a ton of money before I figured out my problem. I bought a new scope ($240), I bought three different types of powder ($15 to $30 a crack), I bought different types of bullets ($5 to $30), new set of rings ($40), and a lot more stuff. I still had the same issues as before, until I Loc-Tited my bases down on to the gun I couldn't get rid of my issue. I would get it sighted in and then it would start to wander after a few more shots. Once I loc-tited my bases down I started to get sub-moa groups and was able to shoot a lot with out it moving. I have shot that gun over 100 times since then and banged it around with it still holding it's zero.

Either way I thoght I would suggest that you loc-tite your bases down if you haven't done so already.

River Rat

 

[ShawnT]

Nikon and they said everything past the shock test, and was good to go, except that they adjusted the collimation

I believe what Nikon is telling you is that the scope had a lot of parallax and that is what they adjusted (collimation). I had one of the first Nikon Prostaff 3x9's and it had 8" of parallax out of the box. Groups from the 243 win it was on wandered all over the paper, and off of it. I finally checked and saw the parallax and swapped out the scope to correct it. That can happen to any scope and it can be hard to find if you are not looking for it, or don't know how. This is not to say it only happens on Nikon either, as I have seen it on other brands as well. Nikon does make some fine scopes. They used that same terminology when they sent back my Monarch 4X that developed about 4 " of parallax after 11 years on a rifle.

I would bet that in the beginning, if you had sat that rifle in the sand bags, got into a shooting position, and while looking at the target through the scope, but moved your heard in small movements up, down, left and right (without moving the rifle), the crosshairs would have appeared to "float" or move with your movements. That should not happen. You should be able to do this and the reticule stay in the same location with no movement. If a scope has a parallax problem then each time you put your face to the stock, you would be looking through the scope in a little different location and will move the rifle to correct the point of aim, at that point you have effectively moved the rifle so it now shoots to a different place on the target. I have seen some scopes have a very small amount of parallax in them at close ranges since they are usually set for 100 yards (Rifle scopes). Some shotgun/muzzleloader scopes are adjusted to 50 or 75 yards from the factory.

 

[jdhaines32]

ShawnT
Thanks for the very well detailed description on this. I really wasn't sure what they were getting at. I tried to search a bit on the net, but did not find anything that described it better than what you did so thanks for that.

I also made sure to use lock tite this time, when I remouted the scope in the rings and base. The last time I shot it was holding good after some adjustments to the scope, so I plan on shooting it again sometime shortly to see how it holds this time. I have a feeling with the replacement of the rings and bases, the adjustment of the scope from Nikon, I should be pretty well on may way. Thanks to all who have helped me through this.

 

[guitarpicva]

...I also made sure to use lock tite this time, when I remouted the scope in the rings and base...

That little dab of blue goo will make a WORLD of difference. I went through the same exercise. Tightened everything right up, and particularly the groups.

 

[GM54-120]

My front base got loose from NOT using any loctitie. I was getting vertical stringing. After a quick check i found it to be loose and used blue loctite. No more issues after that.

You can also use GREEN Loctite AFTER assembly but try to keep it out of the allen or torx hole. It will seep into the threads and hold the head of the screw in place very well. Its also much easier to break loose if needed. Nail polish seems to work also but temp extremes might weaken it over time.

 

[RoadLizard]

Great thread. I'm shooting my ML in for the first time Friday... I'm so glad I found this forum before! Thanks for all the great info!!!

 

[GM54-120]

jdhaines32

Congrats

If i know the gun/load im using is for 150yards max, i also site in 1" high at 100 yards or dead on. It has worked very well for me on shots out to 125 yards using pretty much a dead on aiming point.

I start off on a sled, then bags and then verify POI with only my support. Sometimes adjustments are needed after using a sled but off bags it seems to be really close as off hand. I also verify first shot POI on a clean and a 209 ONLY primer fouled bore after my final site in.

I hunt on a 2-3 primer fouled bore, others prefer clean. You might want to see what you prefer.