Sticky petition/poll

[Sideshow]

As Ron mentioned, you do not need to do this with most newer CVA guns. I have a bunch of CVA guns and do nothing more than screw the plug in by hand snuggly and go shoot. No leakage and not one stuck plug ever. A couple of these guns have prehaps 700 rounds thru the plugs with no eveidence of flame cutting at the face of the plugs, but the plugs have been drilled and tapped to accept vent liners. The vent liners have zero to do with flame cutting at the barrel/breech plug are but do have a lot to do with how many shots a breech plug can tolerate before the factory flame hole gets burned out....hence the replaceable vent liner. Much cheaper than a new plug.

When you clean your gun make certain the face of the breech plug is debris free as well as the face of the barrel when you re-install the plug.

A couple of these guns saw T7 pellet before I bought them and even then the plugs came right out by hand. All of these guns I have refered to are now converted to BH209 use exclusively and again I have zero issues with a stuck plug in any of them. I'm inclined to think that stuck plugs are an issue with certain brands of firearms rather than a universally dealt with issue regarding ALL breed plugs. Teflon tape can do a world of good if one feels he needs to seal the plug in some guns but CVA guns since 2010 are seldom in need of even that and a couple of my guns made prior to 2010 require nothing on the threads as they seal completely and will come right out even after standing after firing a few days. I feel the less of anything one puts on the threads is the best practice but everyone has to make their own decisions. In my world there is no one size fits all type of fix for anything. With CVA products the less you do is your best bet. CVA plugs are cheap. If you feel that one isn't sealing well, replace it. You'll be happier not having to clean stuff from the plug's threads or the threads in the receiver end. .

As per usual every application needs to be considered for what exact situation is before you . Thats just common sense to do so . To each their own on that one . Part of that sense should also consider what another muzzleloader is faced with . Obviously one cant be there looking over every shoulder considering those options . Still yet some sort of a solution should still be offered or at least available to easily view . That is a good thing . To do less says we dont care about your situation . That IS SAD . An expanded view of our fellow man is always best . This is no different . To care takes effort and insight . We watch GM54-120 do just that daily on a variety of topics . Many of us do the same . That is tremendously honorable . To me this is the fabric of the dream and vision of MML . This as a sticky fits that bill perfectly . Apply all or part of any suggestions offered on here at MML and its there . This deserves to be readily available easily too . Then its you decide what to keep or disregard . No different here only the easy access is being polled for this option .

 

[Sideshow]

I am Talking Real Blackpowder, and a Few Triple Seven Outings. Here are the 3 Products i have hands on experience with, To this Day I have never had a Nipple or Breech Plug that I Couldn’t Remove, But they Required Quite a Bit of Elbow Grease! Of course The more i shot, the Tougher they were to Remove. The times i Shot 20 Plus Times, they Required a LOT of Elbow Grease! Along with my Steam Cleaner, Blasting them REALLY Hot to Help break them Free.

This Stuff on the other hand makes Nipple Removal near Effortless, I can literally Remove the Nipples in my Percussion Sidelocks with my Fingers After Shooting with Real Blackpowder, Something that was IMPOSSIBLE with The above 3 products. They are NOT EVEN CLOSE to this stuff. All i am Saying is this Stuff REALLY Does Work, unlike ANYTHING else i have seen.

Bless you Idaholewis . I appreciate your support for all who frequent MML .

 

[Sideshow]

How about that a machinest . I dont just design as ive been well known to get my hands dirty too on machine shop tooling . Turning wrenches with the best of mechanics of all types as well .

Your question is a good one . Right up front im going to tell you i dont have that design on any of my rifles . Often i wish i did !!! Cleaning looks really attractive for those models !!!

The utmost in seal , the Permatex Thread Sealant will provide in abundance . Its gooy , its a bit wet on application . But it also dries up ALOT . If you need / want a secondary seal there is nothing better . And unless you blob it on without any care it wont end up in your barrel either !!! Other methods may have some advantages however . Tape you wrap and go till you start over and do it again . No mess . Simple too Not an entirely bad option though for your type of plug IMO . Many lube it a bit before instalation too . . Grease is grease . It never will dry out and is messy too . Anti -seize must be chosen CAREFULLY . Some is NOT TO BE USED IN THE PRESENCE OF AN OXIDIZER !!! it can actually melt the metal in it and deposit it , like welds , thoughout your barrel !!! Fact . One poor man in the sml forum found out the hard way on his custom pacnor barrel !!! Yikes !!! A Pig !!
Some may want to argue this but id read what the manufactor says first . Im not wrong . Powder is its own oxidizer . And anti-seize doesnt provide a seal either .

Those are the options . Personally with all things considered i think you know by now my choice . Permatex Thread Sealant with PTFE . Warrenty problems are a non issue as well . Your choice may differ.......

 

[NatureNick]

I say Yes to Stickydom. Since this is "modernmuzzleloader.com," I like the idea of pinning this where all can see - though keeping differing points of view from the discussion with it would respect dissenters' legitimate experience and deepen the pool of useful ideas.

While many good ol' fashioned things are fine as they are (like my wife's great-grandmother's gooseberry pie recipe), I am grateful to enjoy a modern quality of life enhanced by developments such as LEDs, side curtain airbags, Mylar, Kevlar, anti-lock brakes, BlueTooth, and PTFE/Teflon/Syncolon.

I used the thread sealer in question last summer on my truck's water pump bolts, and may still have some out in the garage if what's left of a 1 oz tube hasn't dried up. I'll give it a try if I finally get around to first shots on my Grey Hawk this spring.

 

[Sideshow]

I say Yes to Stickydom. Since this is "modernmuzzleloader.com," I like the idea of pinning this where all can see - though keeping differing points of view from the discussion with it would respect dissenters' legitimate experience and deepen the pool of useful ideas.

While many good ol' fashioned things are fine as they are (like my wife's great-grandmother's gooseberry pie recipe), I am grateful to enjoy a modern quality of life enhanced by developments such as LEDs, side curtain airbags, Mylar, Kevlar, anti-lock brakes, BlueTooth, and PTFE/Teflon/Syncolon.

I used the thread sealer in question last summer on my truck's water pump bolts, and may still have some out in the garage if what's left of a 1 oz tube hasn't dried up. I'll give it a try if I finally get around to first shots on my Grey Hawk this spring.

The heck with the rest .....you said "gooseberry pie" !!!! Where and when.......
Just kiddin (not really) Thanks NatureNick.......

 

[flounder]

As much as I hate to increase Sideshow's hat size I voted yes. I haven't tried the stuff yet but I will. The truth is I haven't had that hard of a time getting breech plugs out using grease but that could be because I don't know my own strength. I do find the sooty grease to be kind of a mess to clean up though so I wouldn't mind parting ways with some of that mess.

 

[Sideshow]

As much as I hate to increase Sideshow's hat size I voted yes. I haven't tried the stuff yet but I will. The truth is I haven't had that hard of a time getting breech plugs out using grease but that could be because I don't know my own strength. I do find the sooty grease to be kind of a mess to clean up though so I wouldn't mind parting ways with some of that mess.

Lol , well dam flounder , ya think a diet might help ??? My doc thinks so !!! I do hope thats what you meant.....lol . Personally i like NatureNick's gooseberry pie idea better....lol
Thanks flounder , i appreciate the support of muzzleloaders everywhere for these folks are why i wrote and shared . Besides i already heard of your powers .

 

[D55]

I no longer shoot smokers but sml and only use ptfe drylube on my bp's. ptfe drylube is used as a release agent, don't know how it would work on smokers.

 

[Sideshow]

I no longer shoot smokers but sml and only use ptfe drylube on my bp's. ptfe drylube is used as a release agent, don't know how it would work on smokers.

We kinda need something to actually fill in the looseness of our threads D55 . The crud from our powders just get blown and forced into everything from a leaking seal on our front sealing breechplugs . The situation is just horrible and with heavy charges of bh209 the risk of gas cutting is greatly increased to boot . I grabbed the bull by the horns to end this 3 decades ago . It works . I think this should be a sticky for easy access . Thats what its about . Your support would be appreciated in this if you would vote . Thanks.....

 

[MrTom]

Screw your new plug in the gun and use the wrench that's furnished to snug it up good. Snug it, don't bear down ion it as that's not needed to seat the plug. Then back off the tension on the plug. When you're ready to shoot, screw the plug in firmly with your fingers and have at it. The plug will come out with little or no trouble when you're ready to clean the gun. When you're finished cleaning and drying the plug, simply replace it like you did just prior to shooting and finger snug it in place....no grease or anything needed. Personally I do not store any of my in-lines with plugs in them, much preferring to allow free air movement thru the barrel. The plugs go in a zip-lock back with the gun's name on it so the plugs don't get mixed between guns, always back in the same gun it came from. The one thing CVA has done is to get rid of some of the farting around that more expensive guns still require when it come to breech plugs. Call it user friendly. You don't have to mess with smearing anything on the plugs threads in order to have a shooter and you don't have to fret over bound up plugs.

I use a 16 gauge bronze brush in a section of a shotgun cleaning rod to run thru the threads in the rear of the barrel where the plug goes to clean any residue than may have fallen from the barrels or front of the breech plug while removing it, then use air to blow the threads clear of anything I may have loosened with the brush. Dry is you friend. Sabotloader alluded to using Teflon tape on his plugs with great success, but he is not using a CVA gun. I have tried the plain white Teflon pipe tape a couple times but found it was not needed at all in any of my CVA inline guns/plugs. I had to clean the tape shreds from the threads though and that was a pain in itself. If you're shooting the 209 powder, go have at it for 20 or so shots, then go home and unscrew your plug with your fingers and forget about all the mess with anything liquid being used in the threads. This permatex stuff might work wonders in some guns but the CVA rifle you have does not need it once the plug has been first installed as I suggested.

 

[Sideshow]

Screw your new plug in the gun and use the wrench that's furnished to snug it up good. Snug it, don't bear down ion it as that's not needed to seat the plug. Then back off the tension on the plug. When you're ready to shoot, screw the plug in firmly with your fingers and have at it. The plug will come out with little or no trouble when you're ready to clean the gun. When you're finished cleaning and drying the plug, simply replace it like you did just prior to shooting and finger snug it in place....no grease or anything needed. Personally I do not store any of my in-lines with plugs in them, much preferring to allow free air movement thru the barrel. The plugs go in a zip-lock back with the gun's name on it so the plugs don't get mixed between guns, always back in the same gun it came from. The one thing CVA has done is to get rid of some of the farting around that more expensive guns still require when it come to breech plugs. Call it user friendly. You don't have to mess with smearing anything on the plugs threads in order to have a shooter and you don't have to fret over bound up plugs.

I use a 16 gauge bronze brush in a section of a shotgun cleaning rod to run thru the threads in the rear of the barrel where the plug goes to clean any residue than may have fallen from the barrels or front of the breech plug while removing it, then use air to blow the threads clear of anything I may have loosened with the brush. Dry is you friend. Sabotloader alluded to using Teflon tape on his plugs with great success, but he is not using a CVA gun. I have tried the plain white Teflon pipe tape a couple times but found it was not needed at all in any of my CVA inline guns/plugs. I had to clean the tape shreds from the threads though and that was a pain in itself. If you're shooting the 209 powder, go have at it for 20 or so shots, then go home and unscrew your plug with your fingers and forget about all the mess with anything liquid being used in the threads. This permatex stuff might work wonders in some guns but the CVA rifle you have does not need it once the plug has been first installed as I suggested.

Cool , then there ya go . Application specific advice . Its up to you Doccbst1 now . Mr tom i hope you were in support of a sticky as this really should be included as well . Just sayin.......

 

[Rockman]

Pardon me for adding this, but isn't the bottom line as far as what stickies should be added decided by forum admin/mods? As far as I can tell those folks have done a decent job as far as what should be a sticky, and what shouldn't. With or without a forum poll, as well. Just sayin'.

 

[MrTom]

Cool , then there ya go . Application specific advice . Its up to you Doccbst1 now . Mr tom i hope you were in support of a sticky as this really should be included as well . Just sayin.......

If you believe in it doesn't need support. I shoot CVA inlines and see zero need for anything on the threads. When the plugs are properly installed they affectively seal against any cutting as long as the guns are cleaned properly, but then any gun using a removable plug needs to be cleaned properly. I'm just not one to be putting anything on breech plug threads that gets applied by rubbing a stick of it on or applying a liquid with a brush or spray....one is far better off just taking the time to get the plug to seal properly in the first place. Putting stuff on the threads is only a band-aid for the real issue and that's a poorly sealing plug which will ultimately cause flame cutting and wreck the plug. To each his own though. Fix the problem and this issue goes away for the most part.

 

[Sideshow]

Pardon me for adding this, but isn't the bottom line as far as what stickies should be added decided by forum admin/mods? As far as I can tell those folks have done a decent job as far as what should be a sticky, and what shouldn't. With or without a forum poll, as well. Just sayin'.

I dunno....saw it done with lubes recently so here i is with this . That one was a democracy as i watched it happen live . I figured that is what a poll/vote is . There is no doubt this is a Important issue . Ive been a mz guy for over 35 years and Not Once have i seen Anywhere a solution offered yet alone one that ive proven for nearly 3 decades on my and several friends mz's . Nobody else has addressed and tackled this successfully . Nobody . This is a Gold Nugget right here if the full scope is considered objectively . And its HERE on MML . it deserves that shot for all to use easily . A sticky IS the only righteous answer . Hope you voted yes for All to use for years to come . I Already know tbis stuff cuz i SHARED IT . Its for MML's benefit and Yours , everyones .

 

[Sideshow]

If you believe in it doesn't need support. I shoot CVA inlines and see zero need for anything on the threads. When the plugs are properly installed they affectively seal against any cutting as long as the guns are cleaned properly, but then any gun using a removable plug needs to be cleaned properly. I'm just not one to be putting anything on breech plug threads that gets applied by rubbing a stick of it on or applying a liquid with a brush or spray....one is far better off just taking the time to get the plug to seal properly in the first place. Putting stuff on the threads is only a band-aid for the real issue and that's a poorly sealing plug which will ultimately cause flame cutting and wreck the plug. To each his own though. Fix the problem and this issue goes away for the most part.

Read "ENDS THE BREECH PLUG BLUES" mr tom . I said that a looong time ago whats in your reply . I KNOW tbe subject . Please read it and "get" what ive said . Youll find there will be no more to argue about .

 

[Smyrnagc]

Read "ENDS THE BREECH PLUG BLUES" mr tom . I said that a looong time ago whats in your reply . I KNOW the subject . Please read it and "get" what ive said . You'll find there will be no more to argue about .

I didn't read his post as arguing...

What you have presented is one way to solve this issue but others have their tried and true way that works for them. Once I went to BH209, over five years ago, I haven't used anything but CLP oil on my BP threads in all three of my Knights and a CVA Optima. No frozen/locked up BPs once and easily removed. However, especially on my Knights, I did modifications that sealed off the primer by adding rubber gaskets and shims to eliminate blow back.

Having said that, I can see where your technique would be helpful when shooting powders other than BH209. Lewis had a great reply to this.

 

[Sideshow]

I didn't read his post as arguing...

What you have presented is one way to solve this issue but others have their tried and true way that works for them. Once I went to BH209, over five years ago, I haven't used anything but CLP oil on my BP threads in all three of my Knights and a CVA Optima. No frozen/locked up BPs once and easily removed. However, especially on my Knights, I did modifications that sealed off the primer by adding rubber gaskets and shims to eliminate blow back.

Having said that, I can see where your technique would be helpful when shooting powders other than BH209. Lewis had a great reply to this.

Once sealed there isnt a problem But that seal really is sulposed to be between bp and barrel . This IS what is Always overlooked . The Primary Seal . Always .
What MOST only see or get is the permatex , thats it !!! If you objectively Look that is The basis for the "argument" . How much clearer can i be ??? The primary seal part is Completely over looked and in order to keep facts straight over and over i must try to point this back to where is proper . Geez . Youd feel a bit taxed too . The fix works . As stated IN Its Entireity .
Even with bh209 when the Primary Seal isnt 100% you run the Risk for cutting . So it does matter for that too .
To lap in the plug is the ONLY tied and true method , except it Seems CVA may have Finally Smelled tbe coffee too .

 

[Sideshow]

If Doccsbt1's post that didnt post right is truly read and ciphered He shares that C VA says some lube Should be used on the plug . Is the 2 of us tbe only ones that got that ??

 

[Smyrnagc]

Well, it is obvious that you are passionate about this and your thread count shows us that. This passion has sometimes turned to being defensive about it but you have pretty much maintained a cool demeanor. As someone previously mentioned, sticky's are determined by the Admins and Moderators and the one's that we have done in the past have been overwhelmingly in favor of posting it. Currently the poll only has 20 votes and it is 50/50; 10 for, 10 against. I guess we will see what the final count is after the 2/21 deadline and then we will discuss it and make a decision.

 

[Smyrnagc]

If Doccsbt1's post that didnt post right is truly read and ciphered He shares that C VA says some lube Should be used on the plug . Is the 2 of us tbe only ones that got that ??

I agree and only have to use CLP oil with BH209. No issues at all and easily removed with just my fingers.