Suction whilst loading prb?

[Widows Son]

Hello all,
I’ve finally got to the range this morning to fire my Pedersoli Plainsman .45

I’ve been shooting traditional muzzleloaders for 40 years and I have never experienced this problem. I wonder if anyone has any advice. 

I’m using a 440 round ball with .015 patches. My lubricant is a my tried and true beeswax olive oil mix. 

I can start the prb with my thumb and it slides down the bore as it should, however, the damned weird part, is that the load sticks to my ramrod and returns up to the muzzle. I have to use my heavy brass cleaning rod to “pack” it on the powder charge. 

I have never experienced this phenomenon before. It’s almost like the rifling is not gripping the prb. I can feel a definite suctioning when I withdraw the ramrod. 
Accuracy at 25 meters was quite good. 
This rifle was made in 1976, and whilst it has been taken care of, the rifling looks rather shallow. The bore is shiny and shows no pitting.

This is my first pedersoli rifle. I don’t know if the rifling was originally shallow cut from the factory, or if it has just worn down over the last 43 years. Or, maybe the rifling isn’t the issue? The nipple that came with the rifle had a big hollow base. Perhaps that has something to do with the suction?

I’m going back to the range tomorrow for round two. I’ll report on what happens. However if any wiser men than I have experienced this kind of loading problem I’d like to hear about it 

Regards

 

[exMember]

Sounds like a VERY loose patched ball. I'd increase the patch thickness. Also inspect the ball seater on the ramrod, could be that its catching up on the patch and pulling it back out as you remove the rod?

If "suction" is pulling the ball back up with the ramrod, I'd say that patch is much to thin.

 

[Renegadehunter]

I agree with way too thin of a patch, being able to thumb start it seems really loose to me.  If it is that loose with a .015" patch then I'd jump to a .445 ball.  Another thought is too much patch material so it is folding around the ball and the excess is being squeezed over the top of the ball and around the ramrod and gripping it?  Too much left over patch material combined with a loose fit and I think it could do that. 

Store bought patches or cut your own?  If store bought see what caliber the label says they are for.  If cut your own, how big are you making them?

 

[Muley Hunter]

I agree it's a loose patch. Is it a flint or caplock? If it's a caplock don't leave the hammer down on the nipple so the air can push out.

 

[Buck Conner1]

.
Change your patch thickness and go to the next size ball, that should correct the problem. Everything you have been told is correct for things to consider.  :ttups:

 

[Widows Son]

Thanks for your replies. I will try a .445 ball and different patching. 

I may have given the wrong impression when I said I can start the prb with my thumb. It’s very snug and I can only just get it seated in the muzzle crown. 

It’s a caplock btw.

 

[Muley Hunter]

A proper fit means you'll need to give a good smack to a ball starter. If you can push it in with your thumb and then push it down with ramrod, it's too loose.

 

[mark1945]

Just looked in my Pedersoli handbook and all there 45 cal. use 445 round balls.

 

[Mofish]

[align=justify]I cannot imagine "suction" without something on your ramrod either sealing up the bore..like a cleaning jag or something similar. The only other thing that could possibly produce suction would be the ball and patch sticking to the ramrod somehow. I would think maybe a really large patch that would get between the cleaning jag and the barrel  would be about the only culprit here. [/align]

 

[Widows Son]

Hello all,
thanks for the advice regarding the patch and ball size. I've been shooting prb long enough to know better but I just had a brain fart this time.

I cast up some .445 balls and the rifle loaded just fine, and when I changed my patching material accuracy improved immensely.

The rifling in this old gun is cut rather shallow, and I just don't think the prb was large enough to engage the rifling properly. During the loading process I could feel the ramrod turn in my hand with the twist rate.

Kind regards
Joe

 

[James Cooper]

I was going to say "too much patch material" as well. Trim it shorter.

 

[Old and grumpy]

Pedersoli uses very shallow rifling. As a result a rather snug patch is required. The best accuracy I've found is also using a spit patch. Any lube seems to slick things up too much and accuracy drops off. Fun guns at the range, but mine stays home during hunting season.

 

[Hanshi]

I agree; your prb is not tight enough. And leaving the hammer up helps a lot as stated above. What happens is that air is being compressed when the prb is seated pushes the ball back up. I had this happen a few times over the years before I started using tight loads. My .45 Lancaster likes a .440" or .445" ball and a lubed canvas dropcloth (.024") for a very snug fit and it's wood rod friendly, too.

 

[texsam1949]

I went back and read the OP , I didnt see if he was using pre-cut patches or strips and cutting at the muzzle ? If pre-cut then I could see (if to large in dia) the material
catching around the ramrod tip as you press it down the barrel.