Utah Muzzy Reg Change

[ENCORE50A]

Utah has 83000 elk. Michigan has 1k elk.

Michigan has over 2.5 million deer. How many deer in Utah?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Utah has 83000 elk. Michigan has 1k elk.

We have elk?!? Who knew! Next youre gonna claim that we have moose too. And panthers and wolves, oh my!

 

[muzzyhans]

We have elk?!? Who knew! Next youre gonna claim that we have moose too. And panthers and wolves, oh my!

I only point this out because it'd be real hard to compare the two states and their respective regulations. I'm just driving the point home. Utah won't become Michigan. It'd be near impossible... Even for comparison.

 

[biggamehunter78]

That is where the problem lies ,folks like you tellin me and others to eat what you like not what we like . Kinda like vegans telling all to eat grass and (some cases smoke it) , no thanks !!!!!!!! I eat meat and how I kill it(not harvested) only happens with scopes (all my sidelocks use them) my age eyes require them if I want to eat meat and I eat real regular . Not a couch potato or a tree hugger just a non cereal eater putting the accuracy potential to work and saves unintended crippling like a lot of nimrods cause , screwed up yardage /poor judgement /and wrong bullet for the job or lack of practice magnified by taking scopes out of the picture !/Ed

Not exactly sure what you’re getting at here. I was advocating for keeping scopes (you agree with my editorial, one of the initial posts) and limiting range potential via ignition and caliber restrictions. Maybe you should go back and read that post.

That is where the problem lies ,folks like you tellin me and others to eat what you like not what we like .

Every single state in the US tells you what weapons to hunt with, how they may be constructed/utilized and when to do it, they’re called laws.

 

[biggamehunter78]

But i lack the power to get it done.

Maybe you only, but if you get a group together and start something, you never know what you can achieve. I just read the beginning story tonight of the RMEF. Read that and see where they are today, you’d never thought they’d get off the ground in the beginning.

It’s fascinating how many people don’t do anything on a topic but complain. The small minority that actually are active normally can see results (outside of governmental politics! ).

 

[muzzyhans]

Michigan has over 2.5 million deer. How many deer in Utah?

2M in Michigan is the Intel I got. Still. Can't be compared to each other. Migrating herds of mule deer, elk, and pronghorn at 7k-10kft(thinking where I live, Utah is lower elevation) really aren't the same as flatlanding whitetails. I know it's fun to think they're the same, but it's not. Total big game numbers per capita is maybe the best metric? But Michigan deer are without a doubt 10-fold, maybe 100-fold easier to hunt than anything out west. Success rates are way different, draw odds are way different, tourist hunters are way way different. It's just not apples to apples. Maybe apples to car tires?

The folks in Utah can rest easy, it'll never become Michigan.

 

[biggamehunter78]

But Michigan deer are without a doubt 10-fold, maybe 100-fold easier to hunt than anything out west.

Spoken like a true Wyomingite. Native born I take it?

 

[ENCORE50A]

Maybe you only, but if you get a group together and start something, you never know what you can achieve.................

Quite frankly, you don't understand what's going on in MI. MI also has CWD and bTB, but that's only a small contributing factor.

Michigan has TO MANY DEER and not enough are being harvested. As was explained earlier, where it used to be a muzzleloader season, its now an open season.
There is no way on this side of hell that MI will go to a muzzleloader season like Utah. They have sharpshooters killing them now in the urban areas and at night in farm lands all summer long. Does, fawns, bucks....... it doesn't matter.
Now on the other hand, if 5 or 6 guys got together and suggested using SML during the muzzleloader season, it would most likely pass, hoping to get rid of more animals.

2M in Michigan is the Intel I got. Still. Can't be compared to each other. Migrating herds of mule deer, elk, and pronghorn at 7k-10kft(thinking where I live, Utah is lower elevation) really aren't the same as flatlanding whitetails. I know it's fun to think they're the same, but it's not. Total big game numbers per capita is maybe the best metric? But Michigan deer are without a doubt 10-fold, maybe 100-fold easier to hunt than anything out west. Success rates are way different, draw odds are way different, tourist hunters are way way different. It's just not apples to apples. Maybe apples to car tires?

The folks in Utah can rest easy, it'll never become Michigan.

I think you've been taking a lot the wrong way. No one has said Utah will become like MI. It was suggested that it could have been worse than what did happen in Utah.

Ever hunt bucks in Michigan? I think that 10x to 100x is a joke. Its the expanse and lower numbers in Utah that make the differences. Especially when Utah lost 40% of its muley population to winter years back.

There's about 5m laying along the roadside and in the ditches here in MI.

 

[ElDiablo]

The folks in Utah can rest easy, it'll never become Michigan.

Thank God!!! Lol

 

[ElDiablo]

Now lets see what WILL happen.............. those long range rifle builders are going to make a FORTUNE off this change.

How do you figure?

 

[ENCORE50A]

How do you figure?

Edit............

How do I figure? #1 Think about it. If they can't use a scope during the season, that means they'll use something else. That something else is what the rifle builders will make a lot of money doing, such as designing and adding irons and all the associated things with them. Prices will go sky high, just like groceries and everything else.

How do I figure? #2 I have a lot of phone conversations with rifle builders, some in Utah. Had a 45min conversation tonight with one.

 

[ElDiablo]

Edit............

How do I figure? #1 Think about it. If they can't use a scope during the season, that means they'll use something else. That something else is what the rifle builders will make a lot of money doing, such as designing and adding irons and all the associated things with them. Prices will go sky high, just like groceries and everything else.

How do I figure? #2 I have a lot of phone conversations with rifle builders, some in Utah. Had a 45min conversation tonight with one.

I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

[biggamehunter78]

There is no way on this side of hell that MI will go to a muzzleloader season like Utah.

I wasn’t clear and I apologize. What about adding a dedicated ML season in addition to what is already available? Unfortunately I see same issue happening in the future in most states as hunting participation declines, except out west where everybody and their brother wants to hunt because it’s now in vogue.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I’ll believe it when I see it.

Who cares rather you believe it? You don't build rifles. How would you know?
The builders are saying they're making money, I'll believe them. You don't have to believe it at all if you don't want. Pretty simple is it not?

 

[muzzyhans]

Spoken like a true Wyomingite. Native born I take it?

Nope. But I get the sense that I'm being low-key "insulted" by an easterner? Not sure why.

From the Midwest originally. Lived in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, and Nebraska.

Never hunted Michigan. My Michigan Intel comes from friends from Houghton, Iron Mountain, and Marquette. All Yoopers. No trolls/apple-knockers.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I wasn’t clear and I apologize. What about adding a dedicated ML season in addition to what is already available? Unfortunately I see same issue happening in the future in most states as hunting participation declines, except out west where everybody and their brother wants to hunt because it’s now in vogue.

We're good. No apologizing necessary Sometimes WE ALL have to figure lots of things out.

Its just a situation where there is way too many whitetails in MI. Could they create another season, say for traditional hunters only? Sure, and I would support it 100%. However, when would it be? Its open season .... with licenses .... from September through January now. The sharpshooters are shooting all year long, short of DURING the rifle seasons. In the area where I live and only about 20mi as the crow flies, sharpshooters took 99 whitetails from a very small area south of M-32 and west of M-65. I do have to admit though, the deer were all tested for bTB and those which were not infected, were processed and taken to food banks in Detroit. At least those weren't left to rot in a fence row.

I can understand about the numbers wanting to hunt out west. As was discussed in another post, in MI a hunter will be happy to pay $7,000 to hunt 100 acres for just 15 days. I can go into Saskatchewan and hunt monsters for that kind of money. Times have sure changed...............

 

[ENCORE50A]

...... My Michigan Intel comes from friends from Houghton, Iron Mountain, and Marquette. All Yoopers. No trolls/apple-knockers.

Lived in this state all my 72yrs. I live just south of the bridge, but have a lot of friends that are Yoopers too. I'm in Marquette frequently during the summers, along with Newberry and Sault Ste Marie. Iron Mountain is a great place. I dare the badest man on the planet to go into a bar up there and praise the wolf! LOL

Now, trolls? Everyone knows that. Apple-knockers? Well that's a new one, but I will be asking some Yooper friends about that.

You should have said, trolls and fuggies

 

[muzzyhans]

Lived in this state all my 72yrs. I live just south of the bridge, but have a lot of friends that are Yoopers too. I'm in Marquette frequently during the summers, along with Newberry and Sault Ste Marie. Iron Mountain is a great place. I dare the badest man on the planet to go into a bar up there and praise the wolf! LOL

Now, trolls? Everyone knows that. Apple-knockers? Well that's a new one, but I will be asking some Yooper friends about that.

You should have said, trolls and fuggies

Fudgie. Yeah. I think that's all tourists. I believe Apple-knocker is a hunter from down south that goes up to the yoop specifically to hunt up there.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Fudgie. Yeah. I think that's all tourists. I believe Apple-knocker is a hunter from down south that goes up to the yoop specifically to hunt up there.

LOL...... I've hunted from one end of this state to the other and Canada, but I do have to say, I've never hunted the U.P. Trout fished it a lot though years back. Spent a lot of time in the Two Heart areas and on unnamed streams. Boy those were the days! Long gone now...........
Wife has some relation that just purchased in DeTour Village, so we should be riding up there this next summer.

 

[biggamehunter78]

Nope. But I get the sense that I'm being low-key "insulted" by an easterner? Not sure why.

From the Midwest originally. Lived in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, and Nebraska.

Never hunted Michigan. My Michigan Intel comes from friends from Houghton, Iron Mountain, and Marquette. All Yoopers. No trolls/apple-knockers.

Not at all insulting unless you took it that way, I’ve lived there and I understand the (mostly native) Wyoming arrogance. It was a factual question. I don’t insult people, if they think I do it’s their problem. You do make another Wyomingish statement “easterner”, which when stated by them is typically derogatory toward the recipient especially the way you used it.

Anyway… Refer previous comment. 10/100X is purely situational and extremely broad, nor always accurate from my experience having hunted in the east and west for decades each. Each can be challenging and are totally different styles of hunting from one another, which you obviously have experienced. Sometimes is a drop in the bucket in each place, sometimes it’s a biznatch and the hardest thing you’ve ever done. Just depends on what species and what hunt is in question.