Water jug test

[dlethcoe]

Went out today at 7 am and set up at the 200 yard range, first up was the Accura V2 110 gr of BH 209, Decided that I was going to try the Hornady 458 Monoflex bullet with the MMP orange Sabot, It went thru 3 jugs and ended up in the bottom of the 4 th jug with that done.
The Barnes 250 TEZ with the Harvester black smooth Sabot was next, I shot the Barnes and watched 3 jugs go flying, went down to check, The first jug was 12 feet away from the others, checked the jugs and no bullet, Looked around and found it laying on the ground on the opposite side next to the 6 X 6 post that I was setting the jugs on. Pic 1 is of the Barnes and of the Hornady 458, As you can see the Hornady's 458 MONOFLEX did open up, not as much as the Barnes, But they did open up, I belive that the 452 monoflex would do the same thing.
Decided to pull the MR out,
Again 110 gr of BH 209, and try the Barnes 500/275 sabotless (I call them the big mouth) It went thru all 5 jugs and thru the fiber board and into the plastic bale back stop that I had, pic #2 and #3,You can see that I hit the last jug a little high so decided to try it again, Again it went thru all 5 jugs and into the bale of plastic again, this time in was in the center of all the jugs,Will dig them out when I get it home.
I did a test earlier this week with the Hornady's 458's with the yellow easy slide sabots, to see if they would work in place of the MMP Orange sabots,
Put the MR away and wanted to try the V2 out with the Yellow sabots as long as I had 6 water jugs left, set them on the 6 X 6 and loaded the 458 up in the yellow sabot, found the bullet in the 5th jug , The next 2 pic are of the 4 bullets that were used,  the one on the right was the sabotless Barnes 275, the mouth opened a little, The other one that I dug out was just like I didn't fire it, it was about 3 inches into the plastic bale. I may do my part and go green and use it again, Just kidding.

I hope that this test will answer some question on the expansion of some bullets at 200 yards on and animal, IF the shot was taken.
 
I WANT TO SEND A THANK YOU TO THE HAWKEYE RIFLE AND PISTOL CLUB OF SIOUX CITY IA. FOR LETTING ME DO THIS TEST AGAIN.

Dave

 

[Spitfire1]

Would be interesting to know how fast the bullets was going at 200 yrds

 

[GregK1]

Great report Dave!

 

[cvilorio1]

Would be interesting to know how fast the bullets was going at 200 yrds

Dave, don't mean to highjack your post, but I thought I answer this one, and that was some great shooting you did, no doubt about it. Now as far as how fast the bullet was going at 200 yrds. Here is the answer:

Base on my old reports and test, and taking into consideration the following factors. First the BC of the MONO is .210, and SD is .175, bullets weight is 250 gr., and the speed at the muzzle should be around 2000 FPS. After you do all the math, here is what I came up with. The bullet was going at 1380 FPS at 200 yrds, and had 1057 foot pounds of energy, and the drop was 11.1" with the gun zero at 100 yrds. That is more than enough to put a deer down with out any questions.
Carlos

 

[Spitfire1]

Enough to put most any critter down if you asked me.

 

[Underclocked]

Thank you Dave for doing the tests!  Very interesting to see the difference between the Barnes. I shot a Doe at 210 yards last year with the Barnes 290 TMZ with 110gr BH209 and the bullet opened up nicely. I didn't recover it (pass through). 
Do you have any PT Golds or the 325 grain FTX to try?  I'm sure the PT will mushroom since it doesn't operate like Barnes. After seeing the Monoflex I'm a little concerned about the FTX since it is designed to be pushed a little quicker out of a 45-70. I can go to 120 gr and get a few more fps.

 

[dlethcoe]

biddler2, I have done the 260 PT golds a while back just to see what the would do, and like you said, they mushroomed, then we have recovered 2 from deer and the were also mushroomed, they both retained, 221 gr of weight and the other was 196 gr of weight, about like the report that I did on the Hornady SST that we recovered.
I did the Barnes 325 Sabotless, and it went thru 5 water jugs and into my plastic back stop almost 4 inches, at 200 yards and it did not open up at all, The most powder that I will shoot is 110 gr.
I will be doing a water jug testing of the 452 Monoflex with supplied sabots at 100 yards, to see if they will open up more at a closer range.
And thank you Guys, I hope that this info will help.
Dave

 

[Muley Hunter]

So, you didn't get a pass through with the PT Gold 260gr. What was your load, and range for those two you recovered? How far did the deer go when shot?

Thanks.

 

[cvilorio1]

If you look at the pic of those bullets, specially the three bullets together and see how they started out and how they ended up looking after they expanded, they would put a big hole and any deer size from 100 to 200 yrds no matter what and I bet they would be pass thru shot leaving a huge wound channel. and that is what you want. I personally would not have a problem at all hunting with them at all.
Carlos

 

[dlethcoe]

Pete, I was not the one that shot the deer, I know one of them was shot by a 15 year old boy with 100 gr of pellets, and the entrance wound was at the base of the neck and chest, we found the bullet next to the hide by the back leg when we skinned it,they said that it droped in its tracks and was shot at around 100 yards. The other one a friend of mine shot the deer with 90 gr of BH 209 said the deer went 25 yards when shot, He said that he shot it at 110 yards, I did not see the deer, I had told him if he ever finds the bullet to save it for me, 2 day's later he texted me and told me he found it on the opposite side between the ribs and the skin by the front shoulder.
These are the only ones that I have ever been able to recovered. Everything else has been pass thru shot.

Dave

 

[Muley Hunter]

I wouldn't either Carlos, but PT Gold bullets are cheaper.   

 

[Underclocked]

I agree Carlos all of them would work and shooting the bigger Barnes sabot less could be of benefit depending on where you hunt. I bet all of them will open nicely at 100 yards which is probably closer to the average distance most MZ kills are at. 
I know it's overkill but I use the 300 grain PT golds and recently was pushing them with 84grains by weight of BH209 out of the LDR and was in the 2070 -2090 fps range wth a harvester smooth black sabot. Accuracy was on par with 77 grains by weight. 
I guess I will need to make my son start chugging milk so I can save up some jugs for testing. I can't believe you had 27 jugs. That is a years supply of milk at my house!

 

[Muley Hunter]

I drink 3 gal a week myself. I could build up a good supply of jugs.

 

[dlethcoe]

When I showed some pic of the water jug test of the trophy copper, and said that I was going to test again, people started giving them to me, And yes when I finished putting holes in them, I recycled them when I finished. The funny part was when my son and I had them in the drive way. and we started filling them, everyone that drove by was giving us funny looks.


Dave

 

[Underclocked]

I would also be interested in the bloodline bullets and the new ones GregK has been testing. I keep threatening my family we are going to Colorado for a vacation. Thought I was going Memorial Day weekend but that didn't work out. If I gave you a 3 week notice I would be set.

 

[GregK1]

Dave & I talked about this the other day. Even if none of those bullets expanded you still have a tremendous amount of energy entering the animals body at impact & you would have a 45 to 50 cal diameter hole. I don't know many animals that can live with that, especially in a double lung shot! All of these will break both shoulders if you need to anchor a deer on the spot.

 

[hawgslayer1]

:cheers:  :cheers: 

Great report Dave :!:  :!: Thanks for posting these pics and bullets. This is the kind of info that helps hunters/shooters down the road. 

Ray........... :Red tup:

 

[patocazador]

This is the kind of info that helps hunters/shooters down the road. 
Ray..

Exactly my thought. Thanks for doing the work.

 

[pete/ny1]

Great Job

Dave- You are doing a really great job at testing these bullets for us to see.Keep it up!! Pete

 

[dlethcoe]

Thanks everyone. There are alot of different bullets out there that claim that they do this on expansion, I have been using the Hornady 452's Monoflex for a couple of years now, and talked about the pass thru being larger on the exit side, what I wanted to show was that they would expand along with the Barnes TEZ. But at 200 yards, and I wanted to know for my self, how they compared at that distance. Carlos told me about the 458 Monoflex bullets and I decided to test them at that distance using both the MMP orange sabot and the yellow easy sabot, along with the Barnes. My next test will be the 452 Monoflex at 100 yards to see how they open up at a closer range.
What I was after was to show, what the bullets look like at that distance.

Dave



Dave