What they carried during the fur trade ...

[Buck Conner1]

http://furtradebooks.tripod.com/grrw.notes/who.carried.guns.htm
Here is a page I put together for a "Fur Trade Meeting" years ago showing how popular the Hawken's and Leman rifles were among famous mountain men. Don't forget to use your BACK Button on this page, thank you.

Need to take the time and revisit some of my articles and share them with you folks before I pass on.

.

 

[Billy-by-gosh]

Buck, thank you for sharing that, it is a great list - I was surprised that 15 of the 34 were Lemans - I would have figured Hawkens would dominate more.

 

[Buck Conner1]

.
Like today it was all about costs, Leman's being the more plentiful and the least expensive rifle that was reliable. trading posts, traders and hardware supply sources had lot's of tradeguns (smoothbores) by different companies (and example: four H.E. Leman's to one Hawken (rifled guns) from what Hanson had wrote would be found in most inventories).

The NW Trade Gun was cheap worked fairly well and you could buy several of them to a rifled gun (that is what I would have done, having a backup weapon).

Here's an example of a well made trade gun from the 1840-1850's (I'm bidding on this one at this time). My family has owned, bought or trade a dozen of these guns. I just raised the bid to $3,200.00 with three other guys bidding too.

Northwest Flintlock Trade Rifle by Parker Field - One of the better condition NW Guns around today in .590 bore diameter, 36" octagonal-to-round barrel. {Tombstone} {fox} mark with ER on the top of the barrel near the breech and on the lockplate. Lockplate marked in the rear Parker Field & Co 1874 London. Walnut stock with carved moldings around the lockplate and beaver tail behind the tang. Screwed brass buttplate, iron triggerguard, brass serpent sideplate. Stock with brass band nosecap, and {fox} marking on the rear of stock next to the buttplate.

Condition:
This is an excellent example of a late Northwest trade rifle retaining most of the original finish. Stock is excellent.

​

This gun has the "tombstone fox" stamp while many of them used the "sitting fox in a circle", most carried the "London" stamp also.

...........
​

The Tombstone Fox is a Sitting Fox over E.B. was used by Edward Bond to mark Hudson's Bay Company Trade Guns on both the locks and barrel. The top flat of the barrel was marked approximately 1" from the breech. The lock was marked on the plate ahead of the cock. This "Sitting Fox" logo was derived from the top of the HB Co. logo.

The Sitting Fox in a circle for use on a North West Trade Gun on both the locks and barrel. The top flat of the barrel was marked approximately 1" from the breech. The lock was marked on the plate ahead of the cock. The inspector's mark is about .4" in diameter.

The London stamp was a mark of quality on Trade Guns and Fowlers imported into North America. This mark was often copied and spuriously marked on Liege, Belgium made trade guns and double barrel shotguns well into the late 1800's on double barrel shotguns.

The makers (mark) stamp, other proof marks and on later ones a number (not so much a serial number, but thought to be a number mark for the quantity of guns being traded to a group of natives).


.

 

[rbill]

Don't know how true but I read somewhere that freighters going to Santa Fe and Taos used more Hawkins than was used in the fur trade.

 

[Buck Conner1]

Don't know how true but I read somewhere that freighters going to Santa Fe and Taos used more Hawkins than was used in the fur trade.

The key word is "freighters" they had the guns (Hawken, Leman, Tryon, and so on in their inventory) they used them until they got to where they were going.

 

[Buck Conner1]

.
Here's an example of a well made trade gun from the 1840-1850's (I'm bidding on this one at this time). My family has owned, bought or trade a dozen of these guns. I just raised the bid to $3,200.00 with three other guys bidding too.

​

.

I went as high as $3,550.00 and lost to a $5,100.00 bid. Always another one that the serious collectors aren't aware of, fingers crossed.

.

 

[plmeek]

I bet there aren't very many forum members that are aware that Buck wrote, and had published, a book on the Northwest Trade Gun.

​

 

[Buck Conner1]

WOW - thank you Phil for the plug on this book written in 1995.

Had 1,500 books printed - being a research book it was a slow mover. When it was put on the "must have list" for fur trade students at the US Library of Congess we sold everything within a few months.

The Library of Congress is the research library that officially serves the United States Congress and is the de facto national library of the United States. It is the oldest federal cultural institution in the United States.

This passed year I was contacted by Ebook to publish this book for their 2020 listing making it available once again. Something to think about?

.

 

[muzzleloader48]

WOW - thank you Phil for the plug on this book written in 1995.

Had 1,500 books printed - being a research book it was a slow mover. When it was put on the "must have list" for fur trade students at the US Library of Congess we sold everything within a few months.

The Library of Congress is the research library that officially serves the United States Congress and is the de facto national library of the United States. It is the oldest federal cultural institution in the United States.

This passed year I was contacted by Ebook to publish this book for their 2020 listing making it available once again. Something to think about?

.

Hey Buck is that book still available? Wouldn't mind that for a Christmas gift for Jonathan.

 

[Buck Conner1]

Hey Buck is that book still available? Wouldn't mind that for a Christmas gift for Jonathan.

I'm looking into putting "Success In The North American Fur Trade" on Ebook through Amazon - Kindle Direct Publishing where the book would be available as a published in digital form or printed in paper back form.

Need to finish my new book editing with the publisher before I jump back into the trade gun book again. Seems with free time being retired one can get involved in more projects than time allows.

.

 

[rbill]

The key word is "freighters" they had the guns (Hawken, Leman, Tryon, and so on in their inventory) they used them until they got to where they were going.

I never thought of that. I'm sure that they used any pop skull that they hauling,

 

[bobbythehunter]

Love that name. "Liver eating Johnson" great! Love to read your book as well.

 

[oldprogger]

I bet there aren't very many forum members that are aware that Buck wrote, and had published, a book on the Northwest Trade Gun.

View attachment 160

View attachment 161​

After I seen this yesterday, I found a copy on ebay and bought it. Dave.

 

[Buck Conner1]

I bet there aren't very many forum members that are aware that Buck wrote, and had published, a book on the Northwest Trade Gun.

View attachment 160
​

You guys in Colorado may remember our old friend that owned Cache La Poudre Rifle Works in Ft. Collins CO - Michael McCormick. I knew him from the second day he lived in Colorado, became very good friends over the next 35 plus years. Knew he was a military brat and was in Nam. Came from a very wealthy family (enough about his background).

I wrote (put together everything that Hanson had as well as several other guys like Hamilton and Curly G. The book is printed and available, most black powder shops have copies on their shelves. I go into La Poudre one afternoon and Mike hands me a copy of this book (well used from looking at it at arms length). Mike says "had some time and marked up a few errors I found). This is a 168 page book printed size 10 text, thought your full of it. Turns out my old friend has a degree in English Literature (had to buy him dinner for that one). Spent a week making corrections and getting the publisher to make the changes for the second printing.

I have completed 2/3's of the soon to be printed with Amazon's book service (marked 3rd printing). A lot of work with this one, magazine publishers are a much easier group to work with. I can let you knew when Amazon has done their thing and the book is available again.

.

 

[White Fox]

Mike McCormick and Cache Le Poudre Rifle Works- that brings back some memories. As a CSU graduate student I did a fair amount of business there on College Avenue. In particular, I bought a lightly used TC Renegade in 54 caliber, and all the goodies and gadgets for it.

Developed an effective hunting strategy that then led to a laughable encounter with a district wildlife manager. Noticing the Poudre ran very low in the Fall, and that Hwy 14 ran on the south side for many miles, I began wading the river in my hippers with my hunting boots hung around my neck. Saw very few other hunters, and had my choice of many fine deer. Once, after dragging the carcass down to the rivers edge, wading once to drop off day pack, boots and rifle, and now dragging the deer through the water a DWM arrived. On my arrival on the south shore he says "Gonna have to write you up." "What for" says I. "Illegal means of taking. You're "sposed to shoot 'em, not drown 'em." After we both laughed he helped me drag the buck up the bank and load it into the old Power Wagon. We encountered each other several more times before I left Fort Collins, always with a chuckle. He also have me advice on a really good way to hunt antelope.

I still have the Renegade, though it has now been fitted with day-glow sights in honor of my relentlessly advancing years. It is still my first choice for deer in pinon-juniper cover.

 

[Buck Conner1]

Sounds like Tom Jackson he was one of the local wardens that had a good sense of humor. I could spend a month writing about memories of Jackson and McCormick, probably most black powder shooters best friends. McCormick was a great guy and probably the cheapest SOB you'll ever meet, but would give the shirt off his back if need be. The building his shop was in went through a total restoration (the whole block) back to 1910 in appearance inside and out, even got the stamped tin ceilings. The store owners paid for half and Ft. Collins City paid for half - deal was stay at that location for 5 years and you doubled your investment. Mike had three businesses in that building making over $500,000.00. For 40 years he pinched pennies and ended up owning the building (one square block). He was never married and passed on at 58 leaving everything to his brother. One Million plus that building and left me the best memories anyone could have asked for.

 

[BigAl52]

Im on the other side with McCormick. I did some business there but his arrogance and ego left me not caring for him. I did however buy a Shiloh there from one of his employees. The mans name was Steve. He was a good guy to deal with and when I went in there I always went to him. Im not the only one who didnt care for Mike I work with several other guys who had the same feeling. He did always carry some great rifles though.

 

[Buck Conner1]

Im on the other side with McCormick. I did some business there but his arrogance and ego left me not caring for him. I did however buy a Shiloh there from one of his employees. The mans name was Steve. He was a good guy to deal with and when I went in there I always went to him. Im not the only one who didnt care for Mike I work with several other guys who had the same feeling. He did always carry some great rifles though.

Mike's attitude drove my wife nuts, I just tried to work with him. Steve got in trouble with a lady in Safeway Foods in Loveland, she ran into him three times with her shopping cart, it went down hill from there - should have never pulled his box cutter.