White Ultra Mag Sight in problems

[COLOelkman]

I was planning to use my White Ultra Mag this year for Colorado's rifle season so I mounted a scope on it. First time I've shot this gun after refinishing a thumbhole stock that took me years searching for! I mounted a Nikon Monarch 4x12 scope on it and all looked good. I was using White Power Punch 460 gr. conicals, and started with 90 gr. of Pyrodex P. I shot at 50 yds first and adjusted a couple times until I was about 2 inches high. Then I shot everything else at 100 yds. I was shooting off a lead sled as well and started to get OK groups elevation-wise, then I noticed the two screws that anchor the stock to the barrel were a little loose, the rear screw more loose than than the center. So I tightened them using an std. allen wrench (no torque wrench). Then the bullets started hitting 8 inches high. For my shooting the left right accuracy was not great (maybe within 6 inches) but I haven't spent much time yet to fine tune my load. I was first surprised when my bullets jumped high but then my buddy asked about the screws I'd tightened so then I realized what happened. So, my question/problem is that I always take the gun down after sighting in to clean everything thoroughly so I'm concerned that every time I clean and reassemble, I'd have to reshoot to see where the gun is at considering the drastic change I had relative to tightening the screws. I don't want to have to do that and I'm thinking about going back to putting the peep on it but not sure if I'd still have the same potential issue. The barrels on Whites are very stout so I was surprised to see that much movement and wondered if in general the results would be similar with a peep. Have any of you experienced this problem and if so, how did you resolve it? The only 2 things I've thought of would be to bed the stock between both screws and to use a torque wrench. (I'd have to buy a wrench). (tried to add photod but it said they were too large? only 300 kb?)
Thoughts???

 

[GoexBlackhorn]

I never owned a White. Your idea to bed the stock and torque-wrench is often mentioned here with White Rifles.

If you are elk-hunting, 90 is plenty. If you deer hunt, 75 grains P-powder is plenty to 100 yards. More accurate too.

 

[cayuga]

I have the same rifle. I break mine down, removing the barrel when cleaning. And have never experienced that problem. I am really at a loss of what to tell you. I have the heavy laminated stock on mine. It might be heavy but it works great.

 

[cayuga]

Do you think that lead sled rest might have anything to do with it?

 

[edmehlig]

I never had the problem you mentioned with any of my White's . What you can do is mark the outer portion on the screw and some kind of mark on the stock so when the screw is tightened the are aligned. This way you will know they have be tightened exactly the same way each time you take the rifle Psrt. If the keep on coming loose you can try applying Blue lock tight.

 

[COLOelkman]

Good idea edmehlig. I'm not sure if the screws loosened as I thought I'd tightened them before shooting and I did shoot about 20 shots or more.

Thanks for the response cayuga as I knew you had that rifle too! My thumbhole stock is a Boyd laminate stock and I do see a small crack at the front screw location but not very large. I thought the lead sled might be a little issue but more so on the accuracy of the groups as opposed to moving everything the 8-inches that it moved after I tightened the screws. I didn't have the sled weighted so it might help steady the recoil if I did that. It could be that the stock has more rock to it when tightening the screws which is why I thought that bedding would minimize that potential.

I'm just not sure whether I should just bag the scope idea and shoot it with a peep or just use my normal rifle for the rifle seasons. Shoulda started this a few months ago but I'm more focused on my bowhunting lately!

Any tips on posting photos as I couldn't find info on the website and I've compressed the photos to ~300kb which is very small but the site won't let me attach anything and I also can't drag and drop them in the message? Keeps saying file too large? They are .jpg's so not sure if they have to be another type of ?

 

[cayuga]

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11891 this might help.

 

[COLOelkman]

Cayuga - Regarding posting photos the link says click on "upload attachment" and I don't see that anywhere. Clicking on the "Attachment" tab below the message opens a box that says "Add files" and when I do that and click on a photo file, it says "Error - file too large". File is only 300kb so that's a very small file so I'm not sure what I'm missing?

 

[sabotloader]

COLOelkman

If you were to go to photobucket.com and create yourself a login name and password. then you would be able to upload your pictures there and it will automatically re-size it for you.

 

[COLOelkman]

Here's a couple photos. The scope has a rubber flip cap on one end and it touches the barrel so I might take it off next time just to have one less item in the mix.

 

[ShawnT]

That is a nice looking rifle. Have you checked the way the barreled action is fitting into that stock? Is the Barrel free floated? One thing that I have seen cause vertical, even diagonal, in groups when the stock is changed is that the barreled action is bound up causing harmonic problems. I don't have a White but per your post you say it has 2 action screws. I would leave the rearmost action screw tight/snug and then slowly loosen the front most screw and while doing that watch the barrel at the forend tip. See if it comes up out of the stock as you loosen the screw. I have on occasion used a fine felt tip marker to make a small reference mark on a barrel or action right at the stock line, then loosen the screw and see if that mark moves. If it moved then you have a bind and need to remove the spot in the stock causing it or bed it so that nothing is bound up and nothing moves.

 

[bp45cal]

i would be suspect of the stock bedding,when you tighten the screws it put some pressure on the barrel and caused it to shoot high {pressure on the barrel some where}.My advise is bed the action and make sure the barrel is free floating.ie you can slid a dollar bill {a 100 dollar bill is to thick lol} between the barrel and stock from the muzzel to the action without it binding on the stock.

 

[HC]

Definitely tightening action screws is binding the barrel to change point of impact 8 inches at 100 yds.

 

[COLOelkman]

Thanks for the suggestions guys! I got the original White stock out and put it on the barrel and I think I found the mail problem. The Boyd stock did not have a cutout for the cocking mechanism lever (hopefully it can be see in the photos. I spent a lot of time refinishing the grey laminate stock to get it to be brown but never noticed that it did not have the cutout on the cocking side. I did a cutout on the other side to install a Lyman peep but didn't think about the other side. Currently, the cocking mechanism that sticks out actually hits the stock as it's tightened but I never noticed the problem when cocking and shooting. When I tighten the screws, I can see the stock move to come in contact with the cocking lever and I can see the stock flex as it comes in contact. Bedding it might still be a good idea but notching it out will be the first step. Thanks also Mike on the photo loading tip! Doug

 

[ShawnT]

I would be that would do it. Good find. May not need to bed now as long as it sits even in the stock with nothing to bind it. Now just need to try it out.

 

[52Bore]

+1 on the good find.
Knight told me when I obtained a used LRH (it also has 2 screws) that the front one should be TIGHT and the rear one should only be torqued 10 in-lbs.

 

[WV Hunter]

Yesir, I'd say that'll do it!
I'm surprised that the stock doesn't have the cutout. Good find, I bet you are good to go once you fix that up.
Nice looking rifle, with either stock :yeah: