Wonder what the ORDEAL was today????????

[Grouse]

Took the Savage to the range to find out nothing grouped at all. :cry: Probably plastic build up in my barrel from those 195grn Barnes. Or the Breach plug needs cleaned. Before i started shooting tonight. I ran some patches down the Barrel with Hoppes on it. Well, that did absolutely know good. Anyway, i started with about a 5"group with the 260 DeadCenter. Then i tried a 250grn XTP. That group was about 5" as well. Then i tried a .458 Barnes. That bullet didnt even hit the target. Then my favorite, a 300grn XTP. That was the best group tonight. 4" at best.

I'm really starting to believe my Savage needs cleaned every 25 to 35 shots for the best accuracy. I really need to monitor shot's thru that gun. My breach plug is the key. It just needs to be cleaned more often then expected???? Oh well, i've done this before. Tear the whole gun apart and clean everything. Next time out, 3/4" groups.

 

[Nic_58]

Grouse, what ventliner are you using, RW's or the standard issue one?

 

[big6x6]

I BET it was mostly the heat! When you add up the hot conditions and THEN all the other little factors, well I guess during the hot weather we need to pay attention to the little things a little more.

I'm sure you'll get your groups back!

 

[Grouse]

Grouse, what ventliner are you using, RW's or the standard issue one?

RW'S best

 

[Grouse]

I'm sure you'll get your groups back!

Yes i will. I've been down this road before. You are 100% correct about the heat as well. That on top of plastic in my barrel and a dirty Breach plug. :cry:

 

[big6x6]

That on top of plastic in my barrel and a dirty Breach plug.

I just finished cleaning three breech plugs myself! Boy they fill up with carbon in a hurry! Still in the process of cleaning both Savages!

 

[typical10]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. The temps are too high for good groupings. I shoot up to 5 mornings a week, and this am nothing grouped worth a damn. It was 72 deg. at 7.30 this am. :?:

 

[Loggy]

Grouse,

It was either the HEAT or the HEAT...assuming you live in the same PA State as me. :lol:

 

[CORVAIR]

I'm really starting to believe my Savage needs cleaned every 25 to 35 shots for the best accuracy. I really need to monitor shot's thru that gun. My breach plug is the key. It just needs to be cleaned more often then expected????

I am far from an expert, but after reading multiple posts at various times over the last year on both websites, I have started to do the following each range session: :arrow:

1)Fouling shot, then go for groups(clean barrel and clean breechplug to start).
2)After each shot, 5 dots of Remington bore cleaner on patch, stroke barrel,turn over and restroke. Then run a dry patch down.This proceedure allows approx. 5-6 min. between shots for barrel cooling.
3)After approx. 25-30 shots,remove breechplug.Drill out carbon,relube vent liner and plug threads,reassemble.

If temp's are above 80 deg., I use gel icepacks when barrel accumilates heat greater than cleaning in between shots. I move the gel pack around the barrel or partially insulate to keep it from making the barrel cooler than ambient.

This system has worked well for me over the last couple of all day range sessions. Even with outside temp's above 90 deg..
Never reduced my powder charges and got consistant 3/4" groups w/250 XTP/45 gr. 5744.

Since RW has had excellant results w/the .458 Barnes original, my next range session will be with those. If I get similar accuracy results, that will most likely be my deer hunting load.

Just so you do not feel so discouraged, I too had similar problems before using the "SW" cleaning between shots methods. Was very frustrating to say the least.

The cooling methodology I think I picked up from other Savage shooters a year or so ago. Since there could possibly be some impact changes due to below ambient barrel cooling, I will also shoot repeat loads in cooler weather just to verify before Indiana deer season.

 

[Nic_58]

After each shot, 5 dots of Remington bore cleaner on patch, stroke barrel,turn over and restroke. Then run a dry patch down.

Just an observation here since I have yet to make it to the range with my new Savage, I have no range time with it YET! I thought one of the advantages of the Savage w/ smokeless was that you didn't need to swab between shots? Are you saying that to shoot for groups, I need to swab between shots? Just wondering why some folks swab between shots and some don't with the Savage. Is there any difference from one powder to the next as far as needing to swab?

 

[Grouse]

After each shot, 5 dots of Remington bore cleaner on patch, stroke barrel,turn over and restroke. Then run a dry patch down.

Just an observation here since I have yet to make it to the range with my new Savage, I have no range time with it YET! I thought one of the advantages of the Savage w/ smokeless was that you didn't need to swab between shots? Are you saying that to shoot for groups, I need to swab between shots? Just wondering why some folks swab between shots and some don't with the Savage. Is there any difference from one powder to the next as far as needing to swab?

Swabbing between shots showed no accuracy gain for me at all. I quit doing it. I should of cleaned my entire gun before i went to the range. My ventliner also has well over 300 shots on it. I think the Gun deserves a new one by now. :wink:

 

[SW]

After each shot, 5 dots of Remington bore cleaner on patch, stroke barrel,turn over and restroke. Then run a dry patch down.

Just an observation here since I have yet to make it to the range with my new Savage, I have no range time with it YET! I thought one of the advantages of the Savage w/ smokeless was that you didn't need to swab between shots? Are you saying that to shoot for groups, I need to swab between shots? Just wondering why some folks swab between shots and some don't with the Savage. Is there any difference from one powder to the next as far as needing to swab?

I've had a faster build up when the humidity is high and when not using VV powders or 2015, all of which seem to burn cleaner than most other powders. I got more consistent results with extended range sessions by doing a light cleaning between each shot, as described by Corvair. I don't try to thoroughly clean the barrel; but rather, keep a consistent level of fouling. Just my thoughts and what I do. This works for me.

 

[Grouse]

Started cleaning the Savage today. The Breech plug was filled with carbon. Lot's of it. Then i noticed my Vent-Liner hole is atleast twice the size of the new one's. I'm going to spend some more time cleaning the barrel and put a new Vent-Liner in. Should be ready to shoot Thursday or Friday.

 

[CORVAIR]

Started cleaning the Savage today. The Breech plug was filled with carbon. Lot's of it. Then i noticed my Vent-Liner hole is atleast twice the size of the new one's. I'm going to spend some more time cleaning the barrel and put a new Vent-Liner in. Should be ready to shoot Thursday or Friday.

Grouse,

The only reason I mentioned my cleaning methodolology previously was because in my HB, if I do not clean between shots, it is extremely difficult to get the next sabot down the barrel. This happens no matter what powder or primer combination I use. I believe mine just has an excessively rough bore, don't know for sure,merely a guess.
Other shooter's may not have the same problems with their Savages due to differances in manufacturing or shooting materials they use.

Anyway, if I follow SW's methods as described,"BINGO" my accuracy is great and very repeatable.The other thing I have noticed is the breech plug carbon fouling after 25-30 shots. Original opening size is reduced by 50% or greater. This level of restriction usually starts my group size opening up from 3/4" to 2" or more. At that point, I remove the plug and drill out the carbon. Also inspect the vent liner and it's opening. Typically only replace it if there is no other explanation for group size changes.Although I have retired some ventliners after 100 shots.
I use Federal primers and I know they foul more than the Winchesters.

Here is another dilema, the Federal primers do not stick in the bolt carrier after firing, but the Winchesters do! I literaly have to use pliers to remove the Winchesters from the bolt carrier. I have just excepted the fact that I need to clean the breechplug more often and use the Federal primers.

If you think about it, cleaning really gives you something to do while you are waiting for the barrel to cool. Also, why did we buy our HB's and regular 10ML II's anyway? I'll bet accuracy played a key part in your decission, I know it did in mine.For me to squeeze the most accuracy out of my gun, I follow the cleaning routine.

To sum it all up, everyone has a differant approach to shooting and accuracy and how it is obtained. If you have special cleaning methods and they work, why not do it? If you don't have to take any special steps and get good results, thats great also.

I'll shut up now!

 

[dwhunter]

I've had absolutely no problem with Winchester primers sticking but CCI mag primers do. I don't clean between shots either and with IMR4759 at 100yds. you can cover my grops with a nickle. As far as loading hard maybe you need to try MMP'S HP-24 sabots cause they are designed to load easier. :wink:

 

[dwhunter]

Almost forgot, I have to clean carbon out of the breech plug every 25-30 shots to maintain accuracy.

 

[Grouse]

Started cleaning the Savage today. The Breech plug was filled with carbon. Lot's of it. Then i noticed my Vent-Liner hole is atleast twice the size of the new one's. I'm going to spend some more time cleaning the barrel and put a new Vent-Liner in. Should be ready to shoot Thursday or Friday.

Grouse,

The only reason I mentioned my cleaning methodolology previously was because in my HB, if I do not clean between shots, it is extremely difficult to get the next sabot down the barrel. This happens no matter what powder or primer combination I use. I believe mine just has an excessively rough bore, don't know for sure,merely a guess.
Other shooter's may not have the same problems with their Savages due to differances in manufacturing or shooting materials they use.

Anyway, if I follow SW's methods as described,"BINGO" my accuracy is great and very repeatable.The other thing I have noticed is the breech plug carbon fouling after 25-30 shots. Original opening size is reduced by 50% or greater. This level of restriction usually starts my group size opening up from 3/4" to 2" or more. At that point, I remove the plug and drill out the carbon. Also inspect the vent liner and it's opening. Typically only replace it if there is no other explanation for group size changes.Although I have retired some ventliners after 100 shots.
I use Federal primers and I know they foul more than the Winchesters.

Here is another dilema, the Federal primers do not stick in the bolt carrier after firing, but the Winchesters do! I literaly have to use pliers to remove the Winchesters from the bolt carrier. I have just excepted the fact that I need to clean the breechplug more often and use the Federal primers.

If you think about it, cleaning really gives you something to do while you are waiting for the barrel to cool. Also, why did we buy our HB's and regular 10ML II's anyway? I'll bet accuracy played a key part in your decission, I know it did in mine.For me to squeeze the most accuracy out of my gun, I follow the cleaning routine.

To sum it all up, everyone has a differant approach to shooting and accuracy and how it is obtained. If you have special cleaning methods and they work, why not do it? If you don't have to take any special steps and get good results, thats great also.

I'll shut up now!

I wonder if shooting some PowerBelts would help smooth your Bore out :?: :idea:

 

[Grouse]

Almost forgot, I have to clean carbon out of the breech plug every 25-30 shots to maintain accuracy.

Are you using 5744 also??? I think i might be in the same boat.

 

[dwhunter]

Grouse, 5744 won't shoot out of my HB or at least I never found a powder weight/bullet combo that would. I use IMR 4759 which works like a charm. :wink: